@[email protected] as a reminder the reason this is related to self-hosting should be obvious, whether in the title or the post text.
For this one, I’ll note that this is key to self-hosting, and I think many know it. Many, myself included, use f-droid or similar 3rd party repos to manage the apps that we use with our self-hosted setup. With this change, many of the current apps we enjoy using will either need to register with Google, or essentially become unused. While there is a way to still do it, it is really messy, and requires an absolutely wild number of steps + 24hr “cooling off period”. Its ridiculous.
Personally, I’m leaving the android ecosystem one way or the other. It may be using an android phone and hotspotting for another device running PMOS or similar, or getting a Moto with Graphene, whatever, but this change is impactful and horrendous.
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but they have promised to
Like they promised other things in the past?
@SuspiciousCarrot78 @curbstickle adb is not at all convenient compared to something like fdroid. I wouldn’t consider that a real alternative other than in rare cases.
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Enable Wireless debugging
not everyone has wifi at home, and this doesn’t work without one. It’s also very complicated for people. it is basically a wall around a garden.
also you either have to set adb over wifi to automatically turn on when connecting to that wifi, which is not that safe, or turn it on manually every time you want to install apps or updates. with that, the recent android feature to allow 3rd party stores to update their apps without a prompt goes out the window.
The nonsense steps to even get there. The absolute nonsensical mess of lies in their claims to even do this in the first place. Lets be clear - if they wanted to block malware, they would need to be doing so from the Play store in the first place. So, lets highlight a few simple things:
- It was only about 6 months ago that it was documented by a cybersec company that hundreds of malicious apps were downloaded quite literally tens of millions of times.
- The number of malicious apps on the Play store have gone up, not down.
- Banking malware has more than doubled in the past few years
- The majority of growth (more than doubling) in the YoY were spyware apps - used for identity theft, extortion, and surveillance, and all on the Play store.
- There are even ones specifically targeting Android TV boxes, again mostly operating unchecked on the Play store.
To even suggest installing apps (which, lets be honest, that is what they are calling “sideloading” - doing the thing you do on your PC all the time) from a different location is the issue is far from reality. So any “promise” from them is worth functionally nothing to me.
As I said, I’m leaving Android either way. I shouldn’t have to go through such a massive number of hoops to install on my own device.
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https://github.com/evanman83/OURS-project
Doesn’t really slide into the back pocket but…
Haha nice! There’s also this gizmo that looks really promising. I think this is the one where they were talking about an LTE module. Or yeah, could always just tether!
https://mecha.so/comet#overview
Also this DIY project that seems a bit more… Involved.
https://github.com/evanman83/OURS-project
Doesn’t really slide into the back pocket but…
What I’m hoping to go with is more something like a clamshell (think MNT Pocket Reform) or slider (like the old motorola droid). The Mecha Comet seems interesting but I’m not sure yet. I also like what WaveShare has going with the PocketTerm, but I want something other than a pi in there (I swore off RPi when they continued business sales and let prices skyrocket for the regular users who made them who they are).
I may also end up trying to put something together with spare parts I have, but we’ll see if I have the time for that.
please just make an android alternative
I want a phone that isn’t a closed ecosystem race to the bottom shit phone
i hope linux phones succeed
I feel like that won’t be enough. Google is working on locking down the entire internet unless you can pass their reCaptcha with a verified device. See this article related to GrapheneOS and their reCaptcha concerns.
Sites need to stop using reCaptcha or we are all doomed anyway.
Don’t be such a doomer
The issue is the hardware, we already have software
We already have the hardware too
Not ours, we depend on it
There are, but the market is rigged by monopolists. And things like banks increasingly require apps that won’t even run on customer Android ROMs easily.
The regulators are needed here.
The problem with regulators is that they a) gladly suck corporate dicks, b) gladly opt-in for the same authoritarian methods of population control, and c) gladly ignore common sense altogether.
“a” has a name: regulatory capture.
Regulators have in the past fulfilled their role, they’ve just been hamstrung.
That is also because we let the companies get too big. We need to break them up. The market is completely dysfunctional. It is feudalism right now.
Rejoice. As an Android owner, you have options of And-nodroid 😉
OK but that is about a 10000x bigger project
All of the alternatives eventually run into the same “Will my banking app work on it?” problem. The absence of a healthy app economy is the one thing that can’t be fixed by throwing software engineers at it, and it is what caused the death of Windows Phone.
God I fucking LOVED my windows phone. Nokia body, windows OS, and no one fucked with making viruses because eleventeen people bought one in total.
Lumias before Microsoft’ acquisition were adorable phones.
There was nothing Windows about that OS but the name. For one, it was great UX. I miss mine too.
🤣 Man… that phone from The Saint with the slide out full sized keyboard though. Peek Nokia.
my banking app already doesn’t work on my phone, because it doesn’t like termux:x11 and an autoclicker i have installed for an idle game
Right. It wasn’t the zune guy, limited adoption, Microserfs killing the platform after 7 years or a general lack of interest, a climate of distrust after 10 years of garbage operating systems with new logos and the same Windows NT internals…
They should work in a browser no?
Many banks require apps for 2FA. This varies greatly by country.
There are open source 2FA. They require like specific apps OTP or something else?
You have to use the bank’s own app to 2FA.
So you can use the website in your browser but still have the have their app installed for 2fa? That’s peak bullshit there.
Google reCaptcha is going to have a similar requirement for accesing half the bloody internet once that goes through. In summary, I think we are fucked.
Not for things like check deposits, unfortunately
Well, that’s fine since it isn’t 1982 anymore. Right?
@PabloSexcrowbar @anon_8675309 When my bank _doesn’t_ allow check deposits via website, I will switch banks. Ain’t installing a stupid app for a _bank_ of all things, and why would I bank from a device that I could accidentally lose at the grocery store?
I’m pretty sure that custom roms will remove that 24hr wait period from their binaries. Android is still open source and removing a check isn’t going to be very hard for them.
The tech ecosystem is as open as you can. Use linux. Use SearxNG. Use graphene or other custom roms. There’s options out there, you just have to start adopting them instead of just complaining online about having no choice.
Not everybody has a choice. I’m currently on grapheneos, but it looks like I may be forced back to android due to national ID requirements.
If your country forces you on a locked down OS for ID requirements, something is wrong entirely. You should absolutely make some noise against that and urge them to allow custom OS. That’s a political issue, not a technical.
It’s not going to go anywhere in my country, unfortunately. Not even a blip on the radar.
Shit country tbh. You might be able to get a cheap stock android device for your ID and your “actual” device keeps living the good life on a custom rom. Idk how feasible that is for your lifestyle tho.
Name one country that is perfect. What a shit comment.
You’ve dug out a 2 month old comment which already tells me you’re clinically insane. Leave me alone you freak.
I guess one solution to that is to have a second used or ultra low cost phone just for your personal ID and banking stuff. But then it’s no longer really mobile lol.
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I might have misunderstood that all those years, but custom roms like graphene or lineage all use the AOSP source to build “their” stuff on top. Android itself is all the proprietary shit google adds and probably bunch of proprietary firmware drivers, which isn’t relevant in the slightest if you switch to a supported device.
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Yeah, that’s roughly what I thought, in which case switching to graphene (or any other custom rom) would completely “release” you from the proprietary grasp of google and their genius ideas. Because even if they add this 24hr lockdown in the AOSP-Project, graphene could rather easiely revert that change in their fork.
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Graphene doesn’t, they got their own sandboxed google play services compatibility layer. Other OS - no idea tbh.
Google reCaptcha enters the chat.
This whole APK dicussion is important, but Google is taking steps to lock down the bloody internet if you aren’t on a verified iOS or Android device. This will be far reaching going way beyond the APK changes.
Nah! If they kill it Linux mobile will get better!
Only if efforts can transfer over, which means devs currently standing on the paid side of Google!Android would have to move over to develop Linux mobile and develop for Linux mobile.
the year of the Linux smartphone
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Btw, do you know a dumb phone that can tether?
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TCL Flip.
Its also like $100
Fuck you Pichai.
I guess at a certain point I just stop using electronics.
That’s how big tech wins. Complete monopoly.
let’s get real…google isn’t going to stop. why would they? there’s zero repercussions for their aggressive strategy against their own consumers.
so stop using their products. cut google out, entirely.
Only an Android alternative will fix this. No amount of proactive work from users will change Google’s mind on this.
MAKE AN OPENSOURCE STORE THROUGH CUSTOM FIRMWARE DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cydia
“In August 2009, Wired reported that Freeman claimed about 4 million, or 10 percent of the 40 million iPhone and iPod Touch owners to date, have installed Cydia.[17]”
Start working on a Cydia-like app for android or graphene. Look into the development of how to code an open source repository style app store that’s accessible through custom firmware. if one person can make one for the iphone via a custom firmware then, we can 100% do the same with android.
You aren’t going to keep Android open. Respond by shoring up Linux phones.
Not only would that solve this little problem, it would reduce Google’s power and remove one’s data from the claws of US authorities (were the Patriot and Cloud acts let them mass track everybody using a Google product).
Just make sure you chose a non-US Linux phone.
I don’t want to buy a new phone
I don’t want to, but I will if I have to
Google doesn’t give a shit about what you want. It only understands two things: credible legal threats and not giving them your money.
I’m saying I don’t want to buy a new thing, so saying “just buy new phone” doesn’t really help for a lot of people
These people are screwed, then. You can’t expect an uncaring universe to accomodate your wishes, if you’re not willing to move yourself. Stopping using stuff is always an option that doesn’t cost money.
Awww
Most of the world can’t afford to buy one specific android and hope not to brick it. Most people can’t afford a google pixel and if they can, are going to risk it.
And what happens when google cuts off third party tools like MicroG. I need WhatsApp for almost everything from talking to family and friends to Work. Most of the world does, and th3 space is true for Facebook.
Which is why you stop using Android and use Linux phones instead.
Most Linux phones are android phones that have a Linux rom available to them, hence why they said most people wouldn’t risk what they spent a lot of money on
I didn’t say put a Linux rom on an android phone. I said use a Linux phone.
Then you are fucked right? What’s app and Facebook have you.
I too live somewhere this is expected. I said no. I won’t do it. Facebook is easy, because whatever.
WhatsApp is harder even the doctors want to use it. But I won’t. Someone has to start saying no.
Most people can’t afford a google pixel and if they can, aren’t going to risk it.
And they shouldn’t. By buying Pixels you are supporting Google, the same company that is destroying Android freedom.
Today’s best alternatives are phones that come preloaded with custom ROMs (Brax3, Fairphone, Murena, Iodé, and so on), or if you’re feeling more adventurous, a Linux phone (I have heard good things about FuriLabs FLX1).
“I need WhatsApp for almost everything from talking to family and friends to Work. Most of the world does, and the same is true for Facebook.”
Whatsapp and Facebook bring convienence for sure, but you can live without them. All those that know me, know i refuse to use Whatapp. Those that want to keep up with me have installed Signal. I admit that for business it can be tricky but we have to start somewhere?
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or making a cydia-style open source repository style app store that’s accessible through custom firmware.
This will not work either. Stop using Android.
The number of times that signing an online petition has prevented the plans of an evil corporation is exactly zero.
I agree. Doesn’t do anything it would be better to get people to buy stock in the company and vote on what you want. Get enough people and you can make change.
But that process is also… Gross. And expensive.
There are already some movements, like #Keep Android Open that ask to contact local regulators and law makers, this petition is useful to have a concrete number of people that agree and that can be used officially
I am not so sure. It creats activity, being passive is worse. We should encourage all type of protests, even petitions.
Fire also creates activity.
at the molecular level at that.
I’m highly active at a molecular level doesn’t mean I’m getting shit done 😊
It dissipates righteous indignation by making sure that people feel the satisfaction and the release of “doing something” (and thus not act any more forcefully) whilst said “something” is the least impactful thing imaginable.
It ultimately makes those who would do more do less instead.
Companies have reversed unpopular decisions in the past (just saw a thing about Facebook reversing some AI thing). So there may be some possible chance of them reversing this decision. I’m not hopeful but the cost is cheap, and it has a better chance of success than doing nothing
Hence the proliferation of spam… It cost nearly nothing to do and has a very limited chance of return… And yet my inbox has still got 10,000 messages in it which I do nothing about.
Mandate that all boot loaders can be unlocked by consumers/device owners!
That single change alone would open the floodgates of development.
Manufacturer locked boot loaders was the single biggest mistake made in the phone world. Now just consider all the work it’ll take to reverse that simple misstep made years ago that nobody gave a single thought to.
I genuinely appreciate the cause, but to sign this, I have to provide PII, agree to their terms of service and privacy policy, and get automatically opted-in to their mailing list that I’ll have to unsubscribe from later.
So to petition against this shitty tech stuff, I have to go through this other shitty tech stuff. It sucks how normalized this all has become.
here it makes at least some sense to verify that each person voted once. the mail list stuff is of course to much and should be optional from the beginning.
Anyone know if this affects GrapheneOS users? I can install GrapheneOS like 50x faster than it would take to understand what I’m legally binding myself to by signing the petition.
custom OS shouldn’t be effected by it. I’ll probably change soon as well.
anyway, that is rather independent on the petition. a petition is usually not for your own short term benefit, rather for the common good, or outreach of the general problem. so doing either is for different reasons, both reasonable
Really starting to wonder what they signed with apple to get RCS. Seems to be they sold the soul of android.
Wait so you’re somehow trying to blame THIS on Apple too?
In what way does this have anything to do with RCS or Apple lmao
Google apple agreed to increase android security for the deployment of RCS to both platforms. This directly looked like enforcing root detection and safety net(now play integrity) enforcement to use RCS. I’m speculating restricting side loading is also part of that agreement. It would make sense considering it’s forbidden on apple.
Sorry, but do you have a source for this at all?
As far as I can tell, they have added some Play Integrity checks (with root detection being part of that), but the reason was cited as spam prevention, and I can’t find anything claiming they had any sort of agreement with Apple to do so.
They kept pushing for Apple to implement it, but I don’t know of any cases of them making any promises about what they’d do on their own platform in order to convince Apple or anything like that.
I cannot find my source unfortunately poked around a bit. Unfortunately this article was better than even the ones I was finding.
Most online petitions are nothing more than a way to safely (for those targeted and for those amongst the authorities who support them even against the public interest) dissipate the common people’s righteous indignation, by making them feel like they “did something” whilst said something is just about the least impactful thing imaginable.
(Some official ones, for example those mandating parliamentary sessions on the subject if they reach a certain threshold, might not be so, though its unclear as it really depends on the legislation around it allowing politicians to just ignore it at will)
This bullshit will require a lot more than adding your name into a list on some corner of the web in some legal jurisdiction where they’re free to sell your private information.
