It never made sense to me to put password managers in the cloud. Regards to what you intend it to do, you’re making it accessible to a wider audience than necessary. And yet, I’m using iCloud. It’s time for a change.
I’m thinking of just running a locally hosted password manager on my home server and letting my devices sync with it somehow when I’m at home. I have a VPN into my home network when I’m away that automatically triggers when I leave the house, so even that’s not that big an issue, but I’m really not familiar with what’s gonna cleanly integrate with all my stuff and be easy to use. All I know is I wanna kill the cloud functionality of my setup.
I already have a jellyfish server so I figured I would just throw this onto that. Any suggestions?
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KeepassXC + Syncthing. Using for 2+ years no issues. Have separate database files for each device and merge them as needed.
I do the same thing on my laptop and gaming PC. My only beef with KeePassXC is that they refuse to implement WebDAV, despite the OG KeePass having it. Otherwise it’s fantastic.
I look at it like this:
- I don’t absolutely trust the security of my server. Sure, it hasn’t had a breach…yet, but that possibility is inevitable, given the amount of bots that keep trying to get in by the minute. It’s secure, yes, but is it secure enough to entrust the keys to my bank account, my business ventures, et al? IF somebody got the key to my Lemmy account, it would be bothersome, but not cataclysmic since all online accounts are silo’d with only a couple that are linked.
- Bitwarden spent a lot of time and money building a large infrastructure that is, imho, far more secure than my little server. Bitwarden has a pretty good track record. They have had some vulnerabilities, even as recent as '23 but these have been remediated.
- Confirmation bias…I’ve been using Bitwarden for untold years now and have never had an issue, other than the recent UI theming schema that was so castigated by users that they offered a way to switch back.
While hosting my own password manager would fit right in with the rest of my selfhosting, I think sometimes it’s better to defer to more secure options when dealing with highly sensitive data.
Bitwarden is absolutely solid,yes.
Local server wise: If OP uses it in a local only setup behind a proper VPN implementation from my point of view the risk is acceptable. It’s not that hard to secure a home server in a way that Vaultwarden is not at risk - and when you’re so compromised that it is, then the attacker can easily use other vectors to gain the same data (RAt,keyloggers, etc.)
I use GNU pass synced through an internal Gitea. Have wireguard to sync remotely. Works pretty good, I would recommend not setting an expiration on the key, the git history keeps the old encryption anyways.
This is the way to go… though I’ve moved from pass to go pass which is basically the same thing but written in go and looks to be better maintained… also moved from gitea to forgejo since I think gitea has had some maintainer changes over the last couple of years that may not have been in the spirit of remaining fully FOSS
If you’re happy with how Apple Password works for you, I can recommend StrongBox. It keeps all data in a KeePass2 database and integrates into Apple’s AutoFill API. That means it feels almost native when using it. No browser plugin needed. (At least not for Safari.) And you can decide how you sync the database file.
I use keepass (KeepassXC on desktop, KeepassDX on Android but I’m sure there is an IOS client too) I sync the database between all my devices and my server (hub and spoke) with Syncthing
I also use KeepassXC and Synthing together and I am very happy with this combination.
One tip that I have, if you are worried about the security of the database file being shared, is to get 2 Yubikeys and use these, along with a strong passphrase, to protect the database file.
I’ve been using various versions of keepass for ever. Until recently I had the database on Google drive. It’s now local and sync’d with syncthing. It’s a bit “different”, but once you get used to it, it works very well.
Been usingthe same setup for years as well and Im happy with it, never had any issues with it
Is the data super important to you?
Let someone else host it.
Bitwarden in the cloud.
Agreed. Unless your setup and security practices is flawless, I think passwords are better managed by specialists paid for it.
+1 to this; Time spent on your setup is an important factor too.
The more important your data is, the more time you are going to need to spend maintaining your system to ensure security, backups and fail-overs. Not everyone has luxurious amount of time to spend on their home-lab everyday.
I did self-host bitwarden and it’s not that bad to keep updated and running after initial setup (including backups obviously) but it still requires some time and effort to keep it running. And as I was the only user for the service it just wasn’t worth the time spent for me (YMMV) so I switched to their EU servers and I’ve been a happy user ever since.
What I should do is to improve local backps on that, currently I just export my data every now and then manually to a secured storage, but doing it manually means that there’s often too long time between exports.
This. And to add to what other commenters have said, by using Bitwarden and paying for their Premium plan (very cheap, just $10/month), even if you don’t use all their features, you’re supporting a good project. It’s critical infrastructure, I think the price is more than fair.
Either way, you should always make periodic backups from any cloud service you use, encrypted of course.just $10/
monthyearYes! Oh my, I’m silly; that was precisely my point and I managed to mess it up 🙃
Thank you for the correction!
Passwords are one I happily pay for someone else to worry about
That’s about my most valuable digital data
This is how I view password managers too, even though I have my home server backing up
I don’t really see the problem with having the password manager in the cloud if it is protected by 2FA. I tried vaultwarden (self hosted) about a year ago and the showstopper was that I couldn’t store a new password when off LAN or without first connecting the VPN. I am sure there are on demand vpn type services, but it was clunky. It would have been great it if would work locally on the phone then sync the password to the vault when it came back online
i have keepass on only one device. i don’t mind looking up individual passwords and typing them in manually when on other devices.
on the device which hosts keepass, the app is hidden and hoops must be jumped to reach it.
i back up the encrypted password database once a month to a cloud service as insurance against me losing that one device.
it’s not the most convenient setup but i sleep so much easier for it.
just have 1 password for everything, problem solved.
Well, not wrong that it solves the problem, but with data breaches happening frequently, I wouldn’t want to repeat 1 single password for all services lol.
Even if companies hash passwords, it’s still a gamble whether they are using an up-to-date hash algorithm (or if they do even hash it, lol). Plus, generally best to avoid exposing passwords, hashed or not, in the first place.
I do this for sites where I don’t care at all about security. One minor tip, that will protect against automated attacks if the password is cracked, is to add part of the website name into the password (e.g “mystrongp4ss!lemworld”) .
A human could easily crack it, but automated systems that replay the password on different sites would probably not bother to calculate the pattern.
If just one or those passwords gets leaked you might find a lot of other ones get cracked as well.
It may not be sites that you care about. But using a password manager is a lot less effort and a lot safer than whatever technique the average Joe will come up with.
Any password that leaks which could indicate a potential system ( e.g.: sitename in lower/upper/leetspeak) makes the whole thing even more vulnerable.
Just use something. Bitwarden, vault warden, keepassxc, …
Knowing my social circle I’d recommend bitwarden. Even paying for it costs a measly 10$/year, while the free version is very usable in itself. And generating passphrases or 32char passwords will be a lot safer than whatever the hell they can come up with.
Just avoid the default browser ones, big tech and LastPass.
I was being facetious. Every site has multiple special requirements to make your password
strongerweaker, the odds of being able to use a single one are slim even if you where dumb enough to try.
Self hosting a password manager is great, but be sure to read up on keeping it secure, and don’t store anything important in it until you have working, tested backup solution. And re-test it frequently in a non-destructive way.
If you lose your password storage to a disk failure or something, you’re gonna be hurting for a while.
I use KeePass (Keepass2Android, KeePassXC, OG KeePass, and KeePassium) for everything. Been using KeePass in general for 20-ish years.
Recently, I decided to export all of my passwords from Firefox, Chrome, and Edge, import the data into my KeePass database under their own folders, then delete everything from the browsers. That way I can move entries that weren’t already in the database to their respective locations in the database hierarchy, delete duplicates, and change insecure passwords.
The database is hosted on my phones (work and personal), laptop, gaming PC, and a server at home, all synced with Syncthing. My work laptop also has Portable KeePass that accesses the database via WebDAV to my server.
This is what I did. Once Firefox did something and wiped my passwords from sync only way I got them back was I had an old laptop I didn’t use often that was synced to my account. Now I use keepass that’s saved locally and a backup on my nas & flashdrive.
This
x10
It’s strange how I never see this mentioned anywhere, but there’s a way to get unique secure passwords for every site/app without needing to store them anywhere. It’s called LessPass, and essentially generates passwords based on 3 fields (site, username, master password) and works relatively well, because the advantages are quite obvious I’ll list the potential downsides:
- If one password is compromised or needs changing for whatever reason you need to increase a counter and need to remember which counter for which site (this is less problematic than it sounds, except in places that have a password policy that forces you to change your password periodically)
- Android can store the master password and use fingerprint to input it, but in PC you always have to type your master password which can get annoying.
- You need to change your passwords to this new format, which can take a while, and years down the line you’re trying to login somewhere and don’t remember if you’ve already migrated it or not.
You also have to keep track the site and how you spell it. For example is it “Microsoft” or “microsoft”?
And keep track of the current name of the site vs the old name. For example am I signing into Microsoft or Live.com or Xbox?
And keep track of my username. Is it my email? Which email? Which username?
I understand the concept but I think if falls apart fast.
Yup, but most of that is easily solvable by being consistent, e.g. always use lowercase and your email (even if it’s not the login for that site). But yes, you need to know to be consistent so it’s a good point to make.
I have more than 120 electronic identities, impossible to track the counter or to remember the tld of all websites I visit.
The concepts is only useful in a very small and defined scenario.
Hahaha, that’s the point of a password manager. If remembering worked, we wouldn’t need any of this.
Also, I have 300+ unique logins.
Seafile or nextcloud
I switched to Bitwarden after the LastPass stuff a couple years ago, and I just got around to installing Vaultwarden on my TrueNAS system at home. Using a single Cloudflare Tunnel to handle secure external connections for that and other services like Emby easily. Took a little bit to setup following some guides, but has been working flawlessly for me and some friends. You can use the regular Bitwarden apps and extensions since they natively support self hosting.
Bitwarden/vaultwarden is a popular option for selfhosters.
I do this. Plus VPN to have access to passwords when away from home network
What’s the issue of exposing this one to the internet? Even if the database gets leaked somehow, your passwords are still protected by a hopefully strong master password + strong encryption
I guess it’s due to unnecessary risk and lazyness of not wanting to get a domain for TLS. Mostly the unnecessary risk, like why expose it when I don’t have to.
Because it lets you sync your passwords anytime, without having to connect to the VPN first, which saves time. And the risk of data leak is not really there since the passwords are encrypted by a strong master password anyways. With Vaultwarden, you can host your database even publicly and share it on Lemmy and nothing would happen, provided you use a strong master password, which you definitely should.
