Not only vote, but get involved in local politics. A lot of transportation and zoning issues have real things happening at the local levels where a single individual can make a difference
It is questionable though in most states in the US atleast. Not sure how someone who lives a 20 minute drive from the nearest town in the middle of nowhere is supposed to ride a bike around. The whole world isn’t urbanized
You’re right that currently it’s hard many places in the US thanks to suburbs, terrible zoning, car focused laws and so on.
But it’s not like biking itself is the issue here, it’s that you are in dire need of better infrastructure, zoning, public transport and laws.
Again this is semantics. But this isn’t true. Look at the entire state of WV or any state that is mountainous. Unless magically millions of people get in much better shape there isn’t an obvious solution. I’m all for better infrastructure and public transport.
If could enable this 80% to use bicycles and public transportation we’d experience a massive shift in public health, energy efficiency and reduced emissions…
Yep, I’m not debating that point. I’m 100% in favor of doing that. I’m asking about solutions for everyone else. This debate is usually framed as “all we need to do is” when that isn’t the case for everywhere or everyone. Just diving into it a little bit more.
Yeah a solution for the remaining 20% would be great, but we (the US) are not even addressing the urban 80%. I live in the SF Bay Area. It’s incredibly dense here, yet riding a bike is impossible/suicidal. It takes me 20 minutes to get to work by car, but 2 hours by bus. This needs to be fixed first before worrying about small town Montana.
Yep yep, again. Agreed on all counts but that isn’t what the original comments or the article was about. Which is why I brought it up in the first place. I think it’s generally agreed that the more urbanized places would need revamping first. I’m just specifically asking about ideas in rural areas because that’s where I’m from.
To be completely honest, if you’re living somewhere where this doesn’t apply, I wouldn’t worry about it. There are things people in rural areas can (theoretically, depending on which rural area) do to curb their carbon footprint (consuming local agriculture comes to mind) and there are, I’m sure, people working on solving this issue for rural areas. The problem here I think is in this “all or nothing” mindset. As @[email protected] mentioned, this is a viable solution theoretically for nearly 80% of those living in one of the least climate friendly nations out there. This is also a viable solution for many (most?) countries, as most people live in cities. This is a solution for those people. For rural people, we will need different solutions. That’s all.
100% and I absolutely get that aspect. My original post was more about trying to find out what those rural solutions are since everyone commenting did keep saying things along the line of “all we need to do is __________”.
Not debating the effectiveness of what they’re suggesting, but also I’m allowed to ask what the other ideas are for those of us who are outside of the urban areas lol.
You’re totally allowed to ask that. I think the reason you’ve got so much push back here is that this question is frequently brought up in bad faith or as an excuse to not improve cycling/public transit infrastructure. that was the assumption I certainly made. Sorry about that, have a good day.
Just wanted to chime in at the end here and say thanks for mentioning us. I literally live a 20-minute drive from the nearest grocery store, out in the country, so bikes aren’t exactly practical like they were when I lived in denser areas. What I try to do (to try adding to the conversation) is accommodate where I’m able. I have an electric car (2018 Bolt) that I use as my daily driver (my pickup is strictly for situations that the Bolt can’t handle), I’m setting up a homestead to help eat as locally as I can, and I eventually plan on getting solar and switching off of heating oil. However, even my situation isn’t feasible for everyone - my income is higher than the median in my state and I have the land to accommodate a homestead, so the only thing that can be done from my perspective is try to implement policies and infrastructure where it’ll have the biggest impact to help offset the impact of those that can’t take advantage of it, and see if there are ways to help those who live in rural areas even if they can’t be applied to urban areas.
There will always be trips and distances for which a car is the best option. It’s fine to take a car then. The call is to take a bike when a bike is feasible, which is way more often than currently. Not for all people, but for a whole lot.
Then different solutions can be put in place in these places and/or you start with cities and figure out the country side later.
I think the bigger issue you have in the US is the sprawled neighbourhoods, I’m not sure how you can get back from that, maybe recreate small centers in the middle of them.
So to provide regularly scheduled public transportation we would need to build out rail infrastructure to country areas? I suppose a park and ride system would be effective but what would still require a mass buildout.
I’m thinking of areas like this one I attached. The nearest cities are 1hr drive from most towns, the cities are all small-midsized so don’t have that many jobs (proportionally) in the first place. The solution is to put train stations in every town? Every other town? Then the cities themselves would need to build out rail infrastructure because Albany and Syracuse have very little in the way of public transportation.
Genuinely asking, not trying to come across as snarky. This is actually a middle-ground example. I could show you a map of WV or Western PA if you really want to see rural.
I mean…yes? Absolutely, improve rail infrastructure in Albany and Syracuse. Build park and rides at places that feed into that improved system. Improve bus service (or train? Looks like there are already tracks in many places) along higway corridors with moderately sized communities.
Can counties or cities currently afford this without sacrificing something? No.
Would the federal government and states need to spend hundreds of billions, if not trillions, over several decades to make happen? Yes.
Yeah the track system is largely in place (not sure if freight or passenger). I’m not trying to argue lol. I’m just asking questions. So in your world there would be a mass spiderweb of intersecting trains that sprawls out to everywhere (obviously a kind of park and ride situation) and that would feed into the cities or other communities.
Makes me think about the whole idea of the Green New Deal that Sanders was talking about when he ran the first time. Get a giant workforce of people out there building railways and stations. Would be interesting to see for sure.
The practicality isn’t questionable.
Of course there are outliers and places/people it wouldn’t work for but the vast majority should be absolutely fine.
Even if it’s not practical right away, that’s just a reason to vote to put people in charge who would make it practical and convenient.
It’s also possible to join a non-profit that engage with the public and local governments to make bicycle-friendly infrastructure happen.
Not only vote, but get involved in local politics. A lot of transportation and zoning issues have real things happening at the local levels where a single individual can make a difference
It is questionable though in most states in the US atleast. Not sure how someone who lives a 20 minute drive from the nearest town in the middle of nowhere is supposed to ride a bike around. The whole world isn’t urbanized
You’re right that currently it’s hard many places in the US thanks to suburbs, terrible zoning, car focused laws and so on.
But it’s not like biking itself is the issue here, it’s that you are in dire need of better infrastructure, zoning, public transport and laws.
Again this is semantics. But this isn’t true. Look at the entire state of WV or any state that is mountainous. Unless magically millions of people get in much better shape there isn’t an obvious solution. I’m all for better infrastructure and public transport.
According to the 2022 Census 80% of US population lives in urban areas.
If could enable this 80% to use bicycles and public transportation we’d experience a massive shift in public health, energy efficiency and reduced emissions…
Yep, I’m not debating that point. I’m 100% in favor of doing that. I’m asking about solutions for everyone else. This debate is usually framed as “all we need to do is” when that isn’t the case for everywhere or everyone. Just diving into it a little bit more.
Yeah a solution for the remaining 20% would be great, but we (the US) are not even addressing the urban 80%. I live in the SF Bay Area. It’s incredibly dense here, yet riding a bike is impossible/suicidal. It takes me 20 minutes to get to work by car, but 2 hours by bus. This needs to be fixed first before worrying about small town Montana.
Yep yep, again. Agreed on all counts but that isn’t what the original comments or the article was about. Which is why I brought it up in the first place. I think it’s generally agreed that the more urbanized places would need revamping first. I’m just specifically asking about ideas in rural areas because that’s where I’m from.
To be completely honest, if you’re living somewhere where this doesn’t apply, I wouldn’t worry about it. There are things people in rural areas can (theoretically, depending on which rural area) do to curb their carbon footprint (consuming local agriculture comes to mind) and there are, I’m sure, people working on solving this issue for rural areas. The problem here I think is in this “all or nothing” mindset. As @[email protected] mentioned, this is a viable solution theoretically for nearly 80% of those living in one of the least climate friendly nations out there. This is also a viable solution for many (most?) countries, as most people live in cities. This is a solution for those people. For rural people, we will need different solutions. That’s all.
100% and I absolutely get that aspect. My original post was more about trying to find out what those rural solutions are since everyone commenting did keep saying things along the line of “all we need to do is __________”.
Not debating the effectiveness of what they’re suggesting, but also I’m allowed to ask what the other ideas are for those of us who are outside of the urban areas lol.
You’re totally allowed to ask that. I think the reason you’ve got so much push back here is that this question is frequently brought up in bad faith or as an excuse to not improve cycling/public transit infrastructure. that was the assumption I certainly made. Sorry about that, have a good day.
Just wanted to chime in at the end here and say thanks for mentioning us. I literally live a 20-minute drive from the nearest grocery store, out in the country, so bikes aren’t exactly practical like they were when I lived in denser areas. What I try to do (to try adding to the conversation) is accommodate where I’m able. I have an electric car (2018 Bolt) that I use as my daily driver (my pickup is strictly for situations that the Bolt can’t handle), I’m setting up a homestead to help eat as locally as I can, and I eventually plan on getting solar and switching off of heating oil. However, even my situation isn’t feasible for everyone - my income is higher than the median in my state and I have the land to accommodate a homestead, so the only thing that can be done from my perspective is try to implement policies and infrastructure where it’ll have the biggest impact to help offset the impact of those that can’t take advantage of it, and see if there are ways to help those who live in rural areas even if they can’t be applied to urban areas.
Yes, but even in the US, most trips are so short in distance, they could easily be done by bike.
There will always be trips and distances for which a car is the best option. It’s fine to take a car then. The call is to take a bike when a bike is feasible, which is way more often than currently. Not for all people, but for a whole lot.
Then different solutions can be put in place in these places and/or you start with cities and figure out the country side later.
I think the bigger issue you have in the US is the sprawled neighbourhoods, I’m not sure how you can get back from that, maybe recreate small centers in the middle of them.
What are the different solutions? Genuinely asking. Seems like a large aspect to skip since it represents the majority of the US LOL
80% of Americans live in urban settings
Provide regularly scheduled public transportation that feeds into denser urban areas. Make it easy to bike in denser urban areas.
So to provide regularly scheduled public transportation we would need to build out rail infrastructure to country areas? I suppose a park and ride system would be effective but what would still require a mass buildout.
I’m thinking of areas like this one I attached. The nearest cities are 1hr drive from most towns, the cities are all small-midsized so don’t have that many jobs (proportionally) in the first place. The solution is to put train stations in every town? Every other town? Then the cities themselves would need to build out rail infrastructure because Albany and Syracuse have very little in the way of public transportation.
Genuinely asking, not trying to come across as snarky. This is actually a middle-ground example. I could show you a map of WV or Western PA if you really want to see rural.
I mean…yes? Absolutely, improve rail infrastructure in Albany and Syracuse. Build park and rides at places that feed into that improved system. Improve bus service (or train? Looks like there are already tracks in many places) along higway corridors with moderately sized communities.
Can counties or cities currently afford this without sacrificing something? No.
Would the federal government and states need to spend hundreds of billions, if not trillions, over several decades to make happen? Yes.
Yeah the track system is largely in place (not sure if freight or passenger). I’m not trying to argue lol. I’m just asking questions. So in your world there would be a mass spiderweb of intersecting trains that sprawls out to everywhere (obviously a kind of park and ride situation) and that would feed into the cities or other communities.
Makes me think about the whole idea of the Green New Deal that Sanders was talking about when he ran the first time. Get a giant workforce of people out there building railways and stations. Would be interesting to see for sure.