• CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
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    2 months ago

    I don’t live in a 3rd world country, so I guess I just don’t understand the concept of needing to arm myself before leaving my house because I’m likely to need a deadly weapon while I go about my business.

    • mojofrododojo@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      I don’t live in a 3rd world country

      lol the US has the highest death rate from gun violence - it’s literally the #1 killer of children.

      which is not to assert that adding more firearms will help the situation, but it’s got fuckall to do with living in a first world country or third world country.

      • Obi@sopuli.xyz
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        2 months ago

        In these kinds of discussions you can assume the third world country jab was a reference to the US.

      • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
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        2 months ago

        As an aside: part of the definition of a First World Country includes being a “stable democracy”.

        If a poll was done of American citizens asking them “do you think fraud will play a part in the upcoming election?” I would be shocked if less than 80% said yes. That doesn’t sound like a stable democracy to me.

    • capital@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      What country do you live in? I’m curious which one has no theft or violent crime.

      • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
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        2 months ago

        There’s a difference between “violent crime exists” and “violent crime is so prevalent that regular citizens need to carry around an implement designed to kill people quickly while they go about their daily lives.”

        • intensely_human@lemm.ee
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          2 months ago

          There’s a difference between “violent crime exists” and “violent crime is so prevalent that regular citizens need to carry around an implement designed to kill people quickly while they go about their daily lives.”

          Only if you haven’t yet experienced violent crime.

          I carry a weapon because of one violent encounter I experienced in 2009.

          I decided that I never want it to happen again, so I am content to carry a weapon for the 1/1000000 times that it happens.

          I’ve had hundreds of thousands of encounters with strangers and only one of them involved the stranger trying to seriously hurt me. That one was enough to change my view on the nature of reality.

          Crashes don’t have to be prevalent in one’s life in order to wear a seatbelt.

          • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
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            2 months ago

            I have sympathy for someone who’s actually been a victim of violent crime, and it’s a shame therapy isn’t a more viable option. However, there’s a big difference between
            “I was a victim of violent crime and feel more comfortable having a means of protection on me” and
            “This might lead to robberies.”
            “That’s what guns are for.”

        • capital@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          I’ve never been in a serious vehicle accident.

          Still wear my seat belt though.

          • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
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            2 months ago

            “Wearing a seatbelt is the same as walking around with a device that can near instantly kill people.” Is something said by someone living in a dystopia.

            • capital@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              It was a preparedness analogy which seems to have gone over your head.

              Is something said by someone living in a dystopia.

              You’ve had a variation on this in just about every response. It’s getting very old. We get it, US bad.

              • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
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                2 months ago

                Was my statement wrong in any way?

                If it’s getting old stop trying to argue against it by saying the dystopian attitude is necessary.

                • intensely_human@lemm.ee
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                  2 months ago

                  Thinking that it is better to cause harm o an attacker rather than permitting the attacker to harm oneself is not a dystopian attitude.

                  A place in which it is possible that someone might try to hurt you isn’t a dystopia. It’s a natural part of reality.

                  A place in which no aggression exists is, however, a utopia.

                  • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
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                    2 months ago

                    The dystopian attitude is “you better be ready to severely harm someone at a moment’s notice every day, otherwise you’re just unprepared for day to day life.”

                • capital@lemmy.world
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                  2 months ago

                  Was my statement wrong in any way?

                  Do you know how analogies work? Of course the two things I compared are different.

                  It’s like if I said “a fish swimming is like a bird flying” and you coming along and saying “omg swimming and flying are the same now???/”

                  I even spelled it out - it’s about preparedness.

                  • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
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                    2 months ago

                    Was my statement wrong in any way?

                    Do you know how analogies work? Of course the two things I compared are different.

                    That doesn’t answer my question as to if my statement was incorrect.

                    You’ve made an analogy about preparedness and let the assumption hang that that makes both things equal.

                    Just like saying “a fish swimming is like a bird flying” isn’t an argument that a bird would be able to fly underwater, saying “I’ve never been in an accident and still wear a seatbelt” is not an argument for “always have a deadly weapon on you when you leave the house” not being evidence of a completely fucked up situation.

      • BigDanishGuy@sh.itjust.works
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        2 months ago

        Not OP check out my username for an idea of where I live. Besides a bit of gang on gang action in our capital, violent crimes are extremely rare. It’s maybe once a year that police have to shoot at a person, and even then police officers will assess the situation and if possible not go for center mass.

        Note how I left out theft. That’s because you can’t directly use violence to protect property.

        • capital@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Note how I left out theft. That’s because you can’t directly use violence to protect property.

          I remember hearing this when I lived in the UK for a few years and I was blown away. What are you expected to do if being robbed? Let it happen?

          • BigDanishGuy@sh.itjust.works
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            2 months ago

            There is a solution, it’s called insurance. I know that you wouldn’t get your family heirlooms back, but neither would you being armed but not home.

            I know the other guy wouldn’t say it, so I’ll go ahead and do it: you sound like you’re out for revenge, but you don’t know on whom to exact it. I fear that you could end up shooting a porch pirate in the back while claiming self defense.

            • capital@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              There is a solution, it’s called insurance. I know that you wouldn’t get your family heirlooms back

              Then it isn’t exactly a solution, is it? The jewelry probably only would appraise for <$1000 (probably far less). It’s not about the monetary cost.

              but neither would you being armed but not home.

              Yeah…? I don’t get this line of argument. This just in - guns only effective when there’s a human there to operate it. No shit…

              You’re simultaneously arguing that guns are overkill to solve theft and that guns don’t solve theft.

              I fear that you could end up shooting a porch pirate in the back while claiming self defense.

              The state I live in currently wouldn’t allow for me to use deadly force to protect property. But states I’ve lived in in the past sure would. As of now, I would have to be in fear of great bodily harm or death in order to employ deadly force and that’s the standard I will follow. Just keep in mind that many robberies involve a deadly weapon on the perpetrators side which is an immediate green light on my end.

            • capital@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Yeah, not here.

              I’ve had shit stolen. The police “handled it” to an extent but we will never get back priceless family heirlooms given to us from my wife’s side of the family. Fuck thieves.

          • T156@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            You do what the police do, and provide a proportionate response.

            A gun is only to be used if you are in imminent danger of your life. A robbery is arguably not that, unless they’re trying to steal your organs or prostheses.

            There’s a reason your average supermarket security guard doesn’t immediately whip out the Mini-Nuke the moment they see a shoplifter.

            There’s also something to be said about the place you’re living in, where you’re to be terrified of stabbists and robberers the moment you step out-of-doors. Do you live in a hive of scum and villainy?

          • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
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            2 months ago

            Call the police. Are you in physical danger? If not why are you putting yourself in physical danger?

            • capital@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              I don’t think I understand your question.

              What scenario are you imagining with these questions?