I sincerely appreciate your response, thank you! I think it matters a lot to me that I’m not alone with this and that it will change (I’m sure it will also change for me, goddammit).

For me it definitely is an open question of integration vs. letting other people know I’m autistic. Rn only a selected number of people know, but it definitely is an unsolved problem for me if I want to be more open with this part of my identity. In the end it is a bit like what you said, that then people can also understand one better and won’t wonder ‘why is this guy behaving weirdly?’

Listening is definitely a great skill as well - I want to become a psychotherapist, so that will kinda become my source of income :) Always good to cultivate this skill though!

Actually now that I think of it, maybe I’ve neglected it a bit. Listening for me is something I claim to be able to do well, and something where I can use the autistic part of my identity well. And also that brings me to a thought. We all like and love people who can listen well and who will be there for you. I know that a few years ago, I read Carnegie’s “How to make friends and influence people” (honestly, how I didnt realize back then already that I was autistic is beyond me), but the main message of the book is that people like other people who listen. And listening to other people actually made me friends with a lot of other people. Being focused and attentive and going deep into a subject is an area I can perfectly integrate my hyper fixation and care for details, while also making the other person feel appreciated. Of course, there needs to be a fine line, but now that I think of it - I don’t feel connected going to a large party, I feel connected sitting next to a friend and listening him talking about his breakup. That’s what gives me a feeling of being part of the party, because that’s a party I choose and a party I can be damn good at.

In the last few years however it feels that I’ve neglected this a bit; it feels to me that I don’t really listen how I did earlier. I’m gonna reflect on why that’s the case, and maybe I’ll reread Carnegie. But I have the feeling that maybe, just maybe, this is connected to my feeling of feeling left out. Maybe I don’t only feel left out from the others, but also left out from myself, because I no longer practice the craft and art of listening like I did earlier.

I’ll need to reflect upon it, a lot. But thank you for the input! I sincerely appreciate it. Maybe I’ve written a lot of dumb stuff down, but at least I’ve a new thought to go with, and that’s already worth a lot. Thank you!

That’s actually a thought I had myself for a long time and on which I’d love to elaborate a bit more.

In psychotherapy (and CBT especially), there is a model where our thoughts create our feelings. Epictetus wrote two thousand years ago that “not the events make us suffer, but our judgment of them”. I think that’s an interesting approach, but I also think there are strong limitations. Some example can be obvious - like when a person is hungry, it wouldn’t be a good idea to tell a person " you’re suffering because you think you shouldn’t be hungry", but some can also be a bit less obvious. E.g. I am part of the queer community and sometimes get catcalled on the street. I could argue with myself now that I “make myself upset” about it and I create unnecessary suffering in my head, but that would to some extent shift the creator of the hurt they caused onto me. Like I would try to convince myself that part of the reason why I’m hurt is because I have the belief I shouldn’t be hurt by them catcalling me, and I think that’s a very dysfunction approach.

I think what heavily matters is how much I do suffer. If someone would catcall me and I’d grab a gun and kill the person, that would hardly be proportional. In this case, I would definitely at least to some extent have cognition’s which contribute to my suffering in a way which is avoidable.

Coming back on to the topic, what I’m interested in is where “the line” of an appropriate emotional response would be for me. I feel excluded and don’t really belong; I think that’s to some extent true, and it’s also okay that I don’t feel good about it. However, how much is appropriate? Should I just feel a bit isolated? Should I be sad now and then? Should I cry myself into bed every night?

The point for me is connected with the question how I should proceed. I absolutely feel the pressure to conform to society. But how much pressure (and suffering from not abiding) is appropriate? And is the amount of pain and sadness I feel extremely high? If yes, then I probably at least have some influence on a part of the suffering. If not, I risk trying to convince myself that I shouldn’t be sad feeling excluded and lonely, and that it isn’t that bad, etc.

Tl;dr - do I create the suffering myself or do is it a normal response of my psyche, and it would be self-hurting to convince myself that I create this suffering myself?

Thank you! Relating and understanding already helps me a lot. In the end it just means that I am not really broken, because if a lot of people relate to my feeling we can’t all be broken, yk?

Thank you a lot! I know on a rational level as right that I’m not broken, that I’m just different. My psychology knowledge also helps a lot here, because I can contextualize my personal disorder into a more “neutral” framework and know why I feel the way I do. It sucks a lot though if basically every person I know at least to some extent goes to partys and concerts and have drinks and watch series with their friends, and for me the greatest joy is to sit next to a river and read a book. This huge difference between what I like vs what a lot of my friends like is draining.

It helps me a lot to know that I’m not alone with my experiences, and that it gets better after uni + a few years of growing older. The fact that someone can relate to my feeling makes me feel less alone and somehow validated. Thank you!

I am a bit late to the party, but I still wanted to give in my impression because I didn’t see it mentioned by anyone else yet.

I think for me, it feels extremely overwhelming. I feel myself shutting down, speaking becomes basically impossible. Luckily I can still write on my phone, albeit with huge effort, so I can somehow communicate with other people. I only meltdown when I’m in a safe space, but I also remove myself when I notice it gets too much. This feeling of “it becomes too much” is difficult to describe, but it feels like an inner shaking and rumbling. A bit like a volcano. For me personally, this is an unmistakable sign that I need to get out of a situation right now. I do not know if I’m able to go beyond this rumbling sign and not meltdown, and I’m not really keen on trying so. I presume that it would probably depend on the situation, on my resources and the context.

I think the most surprising thing about it is that some very deep part of me likes the feeling of a meltdown. It is difficult to describe why, especially because a meltdown isn’t fun or relaxing in any way. For me however it feels like a huge power which I am absolutely not able to control in any way, so I can just let myself go in some sense. I don’t have to try and function anymore, nor do I have to behave in a certain way; instead I can just let myself happen. It is a very deep unity with myself and my needs. That doesn’t mean at all that I try to have meltdowns; usually after one my day is done for, I’m basically just existing, my head hurts and I feel absolutely exhausted.

In terms of communicating, I’d advise you to prepare some cards beforehand with phrases you might need (e.g. “I need a dark room”, “Please stay here”, " Could you bring me some water" etc.) Just common things you might want to say. Then you won’t have to struggle with saying or writing, but can just pick a card.

I would love to finish this comment with a reminder that the way you, I and we experience and feel the world is valid and okay. Having a meltdown and e.g. struggling to communicate during one isn’t anything we need to feel bad and ashamed about.

I have to fight the urge to start a debate if trains or ships are cooler

Ich habe meine Diagnose vor einem Jahr in Schwarzenberg bekommen. Es ist ein kleines Kaff tief in Sachsen, habe aber ein Jahr von Anfrage bis Diagnosestellung gebraucht. Außerdem ist es eine echt schöne Gegend zum Ausflug - falls Du noch nicht das Erzgebirge gesehen hast, ist das eine echt tolle Möglichkeit. Der Therapeut, der das anbietet, macht es auch schon seit einigen Jahren und hat es mit einem Verein kombiniert. Deshalb warme Empfehlung, da mal anzufragen!

https://move-autismus.de/

That changes my perspective on them a lot. Well, another lesson taken - don’t jump too quickly onto conclusions.

Thank you - I appreciate your input. I’ll also share your comment with my partner, in case she hasn’t followed up this thread. I’ll think about your words.

Got it. Thank you for your comment - I honestly am grateful for it. It is good room for thought, and I’ll think on that and talk to my partner and therapist about this. I’m sure they’ll have additional thoughts on how to move forward.

I especially appreciate you telling me directly what you think. It helps me a lot.

Have a nice time!

Thank you for your comment on tbr energizing activity! I actually didn’t know that, but now it makes sense why e.g. playing PC games help me relax a lot.

Thank you for your comment - I appreciate your input. And also thank you for letting me know about the blunt part - I think it was important that you wrote it down like that. Sometimes you just need to tell things in a clear way.

I’ve added the context to my original post. It is very interesting that you called me out that my gf already feels cheated on - it hasn’t appeared like that to me, but thinking about it now makes more sense. I think I would also feel at least overstepped if my partner would meet another person and cuddle without my consent. That already creates an emotional background, so to speak.

I already mentioned in another comment that it is very difficult for me to imagine my friend trying to get me to cheat on my gf. It just absolutely doesn’t make sense to me why she would try to do that. You also mention a good point - given our past and her kiss, it is necessary for me to make sure she understand that I am not interested in her. While I don’t think going to the sea is per se bad, and my gf even said she would judge it differently if I went to the sea with another person or with this specific friend on another day, it is my responsibility here to make sure to set boundaries here. Going to the sea in the evening on the birthday of my girlfriend isn’t really a boundary in that regard, is it?

And I also understand your point that you’d ask my gf (if you were her friend) if I’m trying to cheat on her. I think if I’d judge my behavior from the outside, I’d find it at least strange. While for me as an actor here my actions make total and complete sense, I also understand now why the friends of my gf told her that I’m at least trying to cheat on her.

I’m feeling unsure of what to do next. On one hand, it is important that I’m there for my friend - she is not doing well rn at all, and I’m seriously concerned about her physical safety. Events like these, where we go to to the sea, really help her. But also I see the need to draw boundaries for my and my gf’s sake and make my gf feel safe. And I also need to make sure she is doing well.

I care about both of these people, albeit for different reasons. I’m now starting to get concerned about myself, because it just seems like a really difficult dynamic to handle. It helps me to realize that my gf has reason to be upset with my actions and be hurt by them - I clearly breached societal code. I acted in the best way I could, because I care about both people - but what I’ve done wasn’t good.

Thank you for your input. I sincerely appreciate it.

Got it, thank you! I deeply appreciate your feedback on it. I’ve been a bit anxious if I’m the only one who feels this way, but it’s good to know that I’m not.

Don’t get me wrong, I really love my partner and she is an amazing person. I love spending time with her. But I also notice that time alone just has a different quality. So thank you for sharing your experience - I will definitely keep it in mind and clarify to her that she hasn’t done anything wrong at all, it is just my mind which sometimes needs a pause from the input of a specific person.

Thank you for your comment - I appreciate it. I’ve added my comment to the original description so that the whole picture is visible to other people. Thank you for recommending me to do that; I haven’t been sure if that’s necessary, so thank you for clarifying that.

I am not sure what exactly to comment or think on you writing that my friend is romantically involved in me. My friend is already in a relationship with another guy, and I think that after her kiss I made it quite clear that I don’t want this to happen. To be honest, for me it is totally obvious that you don’t go after people who are already in a relationship, so I don’t want to interpret her actions in the light of her going after me. I like her and I appreciate our friendship, but why should she be romantically interested in me if she even explicitly said that she doesn’t go after people who are in relationships? I just think it is a basic consensus.

But also, to be honest, if I would be my own friend I would also urge myself to caution. My partner has actually asked me before I went to hers and she kissed me if I was sure she wasn’t romantically interested in me, to which I replied “yes, she definitely isn’t, why should she be?” And when I then talked with my therapist later about it, I realized that she kissed me. So my judgment of people being romantically interested in me definitely isn’t good (actually I only noticed my current partner being romantically interested in me when she began calling me “darling” and “love”, before that I just thought we are good friends.)

My girlfriend already knows the whole story, and I also know she reads this thread (hi to you btw, u potato); it is very clear to both of us that we talk about this dynamic. I think that she does a good job by sharing her concerns with me, so I don’t think she does anything wrong here.

I am not sure what to make of it. It just seems to me completely irresponsible and wrong of my friend if she is romantically interested in me to take actions in that regard when we both are in relationships. I can’t really justify to myself seeing her actions in that light, because for me it goes against fundamental moral values I have. But I’m wondering now if I just tell to myself that she isn’t romantically interested in me. Either she doesn’t get the social cues like me, or she is interested in me. I’m not sure what of these applies though.

I am annoyed it isn’t easy :/

I’m gonna jump into this thread here :)

My partner knows that I’m autistic, so she specifically clarified she has understanding of my inability to read social rules. I completely agree that the societal contracts often are bullshit, and I urge to clarify to me if something doesn’t work for her, not to assume that I know that anyways (because 99% of the time I don’t know).

And I agree with you, that for me not hurting my partner here is more important than saying “I’m right though”. While of course we didn’t talk before about this specific boundary and we had different assumptions, I don’t want to hurt my partner and I’m doing my part (obligatory Starship Troopers reference) to make sure I am not harming her more than necessary.

Definitely!

You can just see the linked comment., I’ve explained our backstory here.

https://lemmy.world/comment/10147272

I’m non binary (read male though) and pansexual, my girlfriend is female and panromantic, my friend is female and biromantic. All of us involved are in a relationship though, so I presume my friend isn’t romantically interested in me (anymore).

Hmm, got it. Well, actually I left the party and then my friend called me; it wasn’t planned for me to go meet her until I already arrived home.

When I talked about this with my gf, she urged me to put in some research in myself - which I hereby do :) I understand that she doesn’t have to explain everything to me. But it also really hurts me when she told me that her two closest friends advised to break up with me if something like that happens again. So it definitely is societally frowned upon.

And thank you for the heads-up. The friend in question gave me a neck kiss, which I talked about and told her it wasn’t okay. She is now in a relationship, and I really have the feeling she pays more attention to my boundaries now. But I’ll keep in mind to stay vigilant. I don’t think she knew my partner had her birthday today, but thank you for the warning regardless - I’ll keep it in mind.

Perfect, thanks! I’ll keep it in mind. That’s a good list.