It enticed me to start gaming on Linux. So its definitely doing some enticing
I thought I was alone in this lol
Win11 literally made me rage uninstall it after I got mad trying to remove all bloatware and then it showed me onedrive ad
What was your experience switching over to Linux and getting it set up for gaming?
If you primarily game using Steam then it’s easier than ever on most popular distros. Biggest hassle is likely still GPU drivers. I’ve never had any issues there but depending on what card you have you may be better off with either proprietary or FOSS drivers depending on what your distro of choice likes to provide by default. After that most games tend to just work, a handful may require you to pick a beta version of proton or something.
If you want to try it and don’t want to do a lot of tinkering check out PopOS. It’s probably the friendliest distro for gaming out of the box.
Driver installation is really only a hassle for NVIDIA users. AMD and Intel GPUs simply work out of the box on most Linux distros these days (with the main issues being related to using slow moving distros that lack support for the newest hardware). Use a fast moving distro such as Arch and you likely won’t have any issues even with recent GPUs. Hopefully NVK will make the situation for NVIDIA cards better too, been testing it on my laptop and it’s starting to be viable for gaming.
It sucks ass. I actually returned my gaming desktop to W11 recently because I suck and my games just stopped launching. Never buying nvidia again, building a new desktop right now to get away from windows again.
Yeah, building a new PC without NVIDIA or at least swapping your GPU really is the best solution. The past two years I’ve run an Intel Arc A770 which was rough at first because the drivers were brand new but has been solid for over a year now and then in February or so I upgraded to an AMD Radeon RX 7800XT which has been absolutely amazing with my 4K 144Hz display. My setup before that was a 1080Ti and it was never an enjoyable experience on Linux and I usually gamed on Win10 on it. I haven’t really touched Windows other than a small handful of times on the A770 or 7800XT as Linux runs great on them.
How is the Intel card? I’m eyeing it heavily and debating on a hold out for the battlemage.
Pretty good for the price! I was using it woth a 144Hz 1440p monitor for at least a year and played mostly Overwatch and CSGO/CS2. It does pretty well and Mesa support/performance for it has gotten pretty good. I still use that build (the A770 paired with a Ryzen 9 3950X) for LAN parties and with my TV and it is a fine GPU. It wasn’t handling 4K 144Hz too well especially on more demanding titles which is why I ended up getting the 7800XT. I’m definitely excited for Battlemage cards.
Arch?!? lol. Terrible advice for a newbie. You are one update away from fscking your system. Better go Fedora/Nobara way. The kernel and drivers will be updated frequently enough. Also, no, propiertary NVIDIA driver installation is not a hassle, Ubuntu/Manjaro and some other friends literally have “wizards” that let you click->click->next the driver.
I’ve heard a lot of people reference PopOS and Garuda as of the last few months but I’ve never heard of them. When you say popular distros I immediately think Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora, Suse, etc. Does your comment include those as well or when you say popular do you mean “popular for gaming”? Also how is the Linux support for external controllers?
To be fair outside of Proxmox and some Debian containers with Docker I haven’t spent much time in the Linux space for the last 7 or 8 years. I’m thinking about finally making the switch.
Pop_OS is based on Ubuntu. It’s developed by System76 which sells linux laptops that run their distro by default so it’s very well maintained and polished.
It’s a popular recommendation specifically for people looking out to try gaming on Linux because there are specific features built in like performance improvements for gaming and some gaming-specific packages whereas Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora and OpenSuse are generally designed to be a general purpose distro. Pop_OS delivers packages as flatpacks by default as opposed to Ubuntu’s snaps which are a bit controversial and also uses their Cosmic desktop environment by default (though as far as I know gnome, kde, xfce, etc all still work fine if you have a preference).
Mostly I recommend Pop_OS for people that are new to Linux, don’t know about why they might prefer one distro over another, and want to try it out with the minimal amount of hassle. If you aren’t gaming Pop_OS is still great but that’s one of it’s selling points.
Popular distributions are the one you’re thinking about.
Some distributions advertise themselves as “gaming oriented” but you don’t need those, generalist distributions work just as well for gaming.
The main setup went smooth. I can recommend nobara which is what I used. I tried garuda as well, but it wasn’t my style. Personal preference, no hate :).
Most steam games work pretty good ( see protondb ). ( make sure to set your steam settings > compatibility to all games ).
Any game with invasive anti-cheat will likely not work. LoL and valorant come to mind. I think some of the cs2 ones like faceit won’t work on Linux. But standard cs2 and competitive work fine.
Battle.net gave me some issues on lutris until I forced it to proton.
Overall I’ve had a good experience. Sometimes a weird issue if I alt tab ( hots ) that it comes back super tiny. I worked around it by running it windowed fullscreen.
Overall I’ve no regrets so far. I installed nobara and it’s quite user friendly. I’ve never used a fedora distro before ( more extensive experience with xubuntu/Ubuntu/pop ).
Helldivers 2, heroes of the storm and ff crisis core worked flawlessly.
Hots needs to run full screen ( windowed ) or alt-tab will make the screen tiny for some reason.
So far: no regrets.
When you first play a game it needs to compile the shaders first. So on your initial game there’s a few minutes ramp up time. But any next times you start the game should be fine.
Thank you for mentioning hots, because that’s like the ONE steam game I couldn’t live without. Good to know it’s possible, even if I have to play true full screen vs windowed.
For hots: install lutris through the nobara app store. Start it and leave it for a few minutes while you run other updates or something ( only the very first time ).
Go to the settings/preferences, ( three dots top right ), click runners, scroll all the way down to wine.
Click the cog and change the runtime from wine-… to proton-GE. Thrn you can just install the battle.net app through lutris. From the battle.net app you can install hots.
Using the built in wine-… Runtime I got errors like missing Microsoft arial or unable to validate certificate.
with proton it just instantly worked.
You can also add the battle.net installer as an external steam app and run/install it that way. The only downside would be that you can’t play a steam game AND have bnet running ( which you can through lutris ).
Exiting battle.net doesn’t seem to be enough to stop lutris running it. So you might have to click the stop button in lutris if you want to restart it.
Battle.net is a bit wonky. But once you’ve got it IP and running it’s okay.
Damn appreciate the details. I’ll def give it a go!
I have an older GPU (rx 470) and I play games that probably aren’t super new so my main concerns were mainly my tech literacy and fear of fucking something up xD
I didn’t really do any CLI commands on nobara. So it’s pretty straightforward. I guess the best experience might be with AMD.
I’m running a ryzen 7 and gtx 2080ti( I think ).
It’s about 4 years old, but it still gets the job done. I’ve had no gfx issues. Nobara installed the nvidia drivers on its own.
If you have a spare HD. I’d recommend giving it a try. I ran popos parallel for a short while to try out gaming.
I was angry and leaped off the deep end. New OS and everything. I have a technical background so with google I probably could save my own ass :D
RX470 is fully supported with the latest drivers. Anything from Radeon HD 7000 (GCN2) series from ~10 years ago and newer uses AMDGPU with (almost) all features available. GCN1 is experimental but also works.
Older cards use the Radeon driver and miss out on Vulkan.
I tried Garuda as well, and was not happy with the hoops I had to go through. I switched to Pop OS, and have had very smooth sailing so far.
I switched over from Win10 to PopOS! about a month ago. It hasn’t been 100% painless but it’s leaps and bounds better than the last time I tried to switch 5-10 years ago. For reference I’m in an AMD CPU and Nvidia GPU, NVME drives for both the system and game drives, SATA for a data drive, NAS for media. I’ve only reinstalled once because I broke everything tinkering with different desktop environments, but it was an easy recovery with the install media.
All the correct drivers were installed from the get go. I managed to overwrite my cloud save for Horizon Forbidden West because of an issue mounting my game drive and mapping the correct install location in Steam, but that was 90% on me because I rejected the idea of making a backup copy of the files because “I know what I’m doing”. I ended up wiping my game drive entirely and reformatting it as EXT4 and haven’t had any problems since - the drive was NTFS before and had a handful of games already installed from Windows.
A couple games require finding the right Proton version to run it, but GE works flawlessly for most things I’ve tried. Everything has run as fast or faster than in Windows with the exception of WH4K: Darktide. There’s some microsecond delay in there somewhere that I couldn’t pin down. Didn’t seem to be video or network related. It’s the kind of thing that I bet I wouldn’t notice if it were my first time playing the game, but since I’ve got a couple hundred hours in it, it is just enough to throw me off and make me feel slightly drunk.
Not the original poster, but my experience was fairly smooth. I had minor issues with wifi drivers, and I got a new GPU that had some driver issues because it was pretty recently released (I guess the open source drivers didn’t have time to be updated?). In terms of actual gaming, basically no issues. I mainly use steam and proton has been bliss, I’ve bought multiple games without even checking compatibility, and it just works. To my knowledge there is only one old game where the multiplayer doesn’t work, but everything else has been seamless. Mint cinnamon is what I’m currently running.
Base Ubuntu with the non snap version of steam has been great. I only play a few games, helldivers, some rouglites, and apex. The thing I miss with windows is HDR and auto HDR. HDR will be added in plasma 6 but I had issues with it on KDE Neon but once it’s on a stable build it will be good.
I’ve started doing non-gaming on my steam deck. Not a lot but its let me use Linux in a very basic way.
My win10 upgraded without asking. Win11 is horrible, I’m going to wipe and reinstall win10 again. As soon as update support stops, it’s Linux for me. Screw Microsoft. They even added ads as notifications and they are going to put ads in the start menu. Wtf! This is the end of windows, I’m sure.
during the great Mastodon migration in 2022 I saw someone post how they head to unlearn scrolling past every 6th post or so on their timeline, because that’s how the Twitter app was displaying the ads. I wish Microsoft the Very Bad and daydream about year of the Linux desktop, but something’s telling me people will get used to ads on Windows the same way.
You’re definitely right. Facebook got super shitty and most people didn’t leave. Netflix got super shitty and most people didn’t leave. YouTube got super shitty and most people didn’t leave. Amazon’s shitty video service got even more shitty, but Fallout was about to come out, so most people didn’t leave and I bet they actually got more subscribers (but idc enough to look it up). It seems like most people have accepted that things just get shitty over time. Or maybe they’re just not noticing the shitty changes? Idk. It’s hard to look at our projected trajectory as a species and be left with much hope. There’s good in this world, but it seems like none of it is coming from companies.
On one hand I agree that most people probably won’t change. On the other, the difference between an OS and websites is that windows has very little exclusivity left. If you want to read Facebook content, you go on Facebook. If you want to watch fallout, you go on prime. If you want to watch long-form content (relative to TikTok), you go to youtube.
If you want a good OS, you’re not forced by Microsoft to exclusively use windows. There are some pockets (like Xbox game pass games) but overall the average user could realistically switch to debian, Ubuntu or mint and not actually materially change what they do and watch on their computer, whereas if you decided to stop using Netflix, yes the experience of watching would be better but you wouldn’t actually be experiencing the same content.
I don’t disagree with your point, but I think that the most important variable is how receptive the average person is to change. It takes a lot of discomfort for most people to want to make a significant change. Most people probably won’t even recognize that Windows sucks because it’s what they’re familiar with and they probably attribute general tech improvements and new software with the OS because they don’t know any better. So they see it as better in a lot of ways and only worse in a couple of ways. They probably also generally think that the only alternative is an overpriced Apple product. It wasn’t until YouTube started cracking down on ad blockers that most people were even aware of the existence of ad blockers lmao. So I’m sure your average Windows user thinks that Linux means programming gobbledygook in cmd.exe and they would rather scroll Facebook. People are dumb and uninterested in the discomfort of learning things. Even if what they’re learning is that there’s not much discomfort because there’s not much new to learn. You have to trick them by sneaking vegetables into their food. “You have a Samsung phone. That runs Android. Android is Linux. See, you’re already using it.” It’s a fucking shock to me that Windows phones never took off.
But maybe the most important factor to Microsoft is the business world. It’s obviously not unanimous, but a shitload of companies rely on the Office suite. Switching to something different overnight might be easy for some workers, but I’d assume a massive disruption in productivity until everybody got acclimated. There would probably need to be some kind of canned training thing to help workers with the transition, which would cost more money. In general, companies would run a cost-benefit analysis and ultimately decide that it really doesn’t make much business sense to make that change when things are fine as is. Because in reality, Windows is fine. It’s not bad enough for a business to burden a rocky quarter just because of some ads and a little jank.
The bad news for Microsoft however is that privacy and security could be getting called into question. Some businesses here and there might get worried about that, but it’s the big Department of Defense fish that will drop them overnight because it’s a matter of national security. In the same way that government devices banned tiktok years before considering a nationwide ban, government devices would not hesitate to dump Microsoft. Their greed could be their downfall. They’re okay so long as the government and their big contractors keep running Windows.
You’ve hit the nail on the head.
Who’s opinion matters more to Microsoft? Businesses, Governments and Enterprises. If they lose that audience, they’re up shit’s creek.
They don’t care if even 100,000 disgruntled Windows users collectively gripe about where Windows has gone in direction. Because Microsoft’s main concern is no longer appeasing the casual and power users. If you’re a business partner or a corporate body, you have their attention more.
Microsoft just knows that a large majority of users will still be there, using their OSes regardless of how much of a dumping they all take. Whether it’s 11, 10, 7 or even WinXP, they’ve got a majority in their ecosystem. And those users are terrified of change.
Hell, I used to have been that Windows user who was scared of change and intimidated by Linux. The issue is that, you just need to dip first, not dive head first all the way. Mac is just simply an extension of Linux. Android as mentioned is an extension of Linux. Windows is it’s own entity surrounded by different Linux versions and forms.
I didn’t leave Facebook, I just stopped using it. You can see their monthly active users are not going up, and sometimes going down. Only Instagram is growing
Monthly active robots…
Reddit got more shitty, but as expected from Reddit users, they all made a big deal about it for a month but still continued to be users. With how stupid easy it is to make an account on there, I’m sure most just pretended to delete their accounts and just made more as an excuse to ‘start anew’.
Like wow, bravo, what revolution, guys. You sure showed Spez. /s
I guess on one hand, I kind of get it. We’re all going to get to a point in our lives where we’re so old that we can’t care about every little thing before we get there. Then before we’re going to die from age or whatever, some would realize how wasted of a time their lives have been when they’ve spent getting angry about every little thing to do something about it.
So it’s probably why so many people just come to accept things as is. They’re going to die anyways so mind as well enjoy what’s here if possible before we get there.
However, on the other hand, you know it isn’t as bad to try to be some change to the world for a better future so that nobody would have to deal with the same shit one has dealt with. And maybe if people were a little more resourceful and took cues from people who have thought better with wisdom, they’d realize that being overly angry isn’t the solution. Don’t be angry, get crafty.
I’d like to think that this is the kind of mindset most may have.
I mostly agree, except that I’m here because I left reddit. I can’t speak for anybody else, but you can see my history here and compare it to my history there. It’s been almost a year now and I’m not going back.
I’d like to think that enough people will get pissed off enough to make real change happen, but people think they have too much to lose and don’t see how much they have to gain. In general, I mean. Windows doesn’t really fucking matter lol. Netflix doesn’t really fucking matter. The realistic course of action is to just vote with our wallets and hope that discourages overly shitty practices from these companies.
I’m kind of salty how fucking easy it was for Reddit to just ignore the problem. I left them for here and haven’t gone back unless it was a Google result.
The majority of people “stayed just for the niche community” then just assimilated and stopped coming back to Lemmy.
Because the whole third-party fiasco was treated as just the ‘cool thing’ to do. This is Reddit we’re talking about here, the kind of site that sits, thousands to a few million users who all think they’re one and two steps ahead of everyone else. The kind who think they know everything inside and out, 4-D chess .etc
So of course they’d be the kind to take something of a situation as to what happened when third-party development got gutted out and treat that as just a trend.
If that incident and the fact that Reddit now is an IPO hadn’t changed enough minds, nothing will. They love the attention and any attention they get as well as the karma-farming validation whenever they complain about how “reddit sucks”.
No, it’s all for show. They’re whores.
I had the same experience when switching from the reddit app to Boost. When Boost stopped working for reddit, I couldn’t stand it so it was bye bye reddit my entire pc connection is ad free. There’s a filter in my router, strong filter in my vpn and I have blockers. I do not watch streaming services, I download everything through usenet with an automated system on my NAS. I have no TV. I order groceries online, I never enter a store. My phone has filters too. I live completely ad free. But then Microsoft comes, and says “fuck you, here’s an ad!” on MY machine. Without consent. I was boiling.
I’m testing out Tiny11, which is basically Windows 11 without the bloat, and so far the experience is great!
My secondhand laptop from 2019 went from taking two minutes or more each to boot and to shut down in the full Microsoft monstrosity to less than 10 seconds for either in Tiny11 and the general performance is also dramatically improved!
(I’m speaking generally, not criticizing you personally.)
It’s amazing the great effort to which people will go to try to compensate for Microsoft’s abusive behavior, often while simultaneously claiming that switching OSs is too much effort.
Projects like Tiny11 are the computer equivalent of “oh, this black eye? I got it falling down the stairs and definitely not because my partner hit me.”
Folks get mad about Linux evangelism, but it’s really no different than friends saying “leave his ass; you’re too good for him!”
To be fair, alternatives like Tiny11 are much more user friendly for someone used to Windows than going all the way to Linux.
Especially if gaming is a big part of what you use your computer for and you prefer to do as much as possible with just the mouse rather than typing in various complex commands, both of which is the case with me.
Windows 11 is too bloated and otherwise enshittified and making Linux do what I want it to is too much of a hassle.
Tiny11 is better for my personal use case on both accounts and, like with Linux, I’m not rewarding Microsoft’s sleazy behavior by using it.
Have you ever tried any modern Linux desktop distribution?
I had a bad experience with Ubuntu and the likes about 10-15 years ago (as a daily driver for my desktop, that is). But a lot has changed since then.
Maybe take a look at Pop_OS or Linux Mint. I’m using the latter, it took less than 10 minutes to install and works out of the box! Everything else comes via it’s “app store”.
There is no need for the console, so you don’t need to type any commands!
Even my parents are using it. And gaming works great.
Have you ever tried any modern Linux desktop distribution?
Yeah, the last one I tried was Lubuntu Jammy Jellyfish a few months ago.
Pop was the one I tried first, but the ancient laptop I was using at the time couldn’t hack it, so I went with the ultra light weight version of Ubuntu in stead.
Very little worked out of the box and almost everything took a lot more fiddling and searching and asking for advice to get to work. For example, I never did manage to make bottles work after over a week of trying on and off, doing exactly what the documentation and advice told me to.
I haven’t gotten to the gaming part of my Tiny11 test, so if it fails that, I might give Pop another chance now that I have a much newer one, but Lubuntu is definitely not as hassle free as Linux enthusiasts keep promising that all their favorite distros are…
Oh man Lubuntu takes me back. I used it back when it still used LXDE, which was actually relevant back then.
That’s not been my experience with Debian as my daily driver for the last few months. I’m in the console, sorry “Konsole” every few days having to adjust something or install a program that isn’t in the store or available as an app image. It’s working, but I get KDE crashes once or twice a week and the microphone just doesn’t work sometimes.
It’s still much faster than my win10, though.
Sounds good, I’ll go check it out :)
I’m using StartAllBack and have found it to be a rather nice experience.
Yeah but that’s only UI issues. It also runs much slower then win10. There are massive performance issues. Next to that I have less rights to do stuff. Few days ago I wasn’t allowed to forget Bluetooth devices for example. Even in control panel bt settings. After XP it all went downhill with accessibility of settings. Fancy setting pages with restricted options. Why, what’s wrong with control panel? I know it’s still there, and we still have WIN+X but it’s getting placed behind more sub menus and restrictions and more and more is being removed to make it idiot proof. But it’s also locking me out. I want full control over my machine. No one tells me what I can and cannot access on my device. Fuck Microsoft.
I made all my accounts local only and I haven’t noticed these issues. I do still use control panel and the old user manager by default, so maybe that’s why?
I also used a special installer which allows for local only accounts out of the box and does some other changes. Maybe that’s why I’m having a better experience. This is the guide I followed. Follow the guide for Rufus.
I used something similar for win10. A stripped down version without all the booking dot com and Xbox bs pre-installed. Only local account. But it auto upgraded to 11. Time for format C.
For me I’m happier with my computer since the XP days with these mods. It’s fast and responsive and doesn’t give me shit. It’s been only a couple months since I reinstalled it, so time will tell, but so far so good.
My win10 upgraded without asking
Oh snap, so the only thing that stopped mine was because it was not compatible?
Wtf Microsoft!!!
I’m so glad I’m stuck with a “your hardware doesn’t support windows 11” message.
Just disable TPM in your BIOS if you have that option. Win 11 needs modern TPM so it won’t upgrade you if you don’t have one.
“Needs” lol
It’s just in there to sell more hardware. Afaik, 11 does nothing that actually requires the newer tpm.
Yeah people who really wanted 11 back in the beginning found an easy process to bypass the check during the install. 11 works fine without it.
If you make the bootable USB drive with Rufus, a little window pops up asking if you wanna remove some of the bullshit, such as TPM and secure boot requirements.
I disabled my TPM in BIOS so Windows would never upgrade
I think this is a pretty big deal and they are shooting themselves in the foot with these unnecessary restrictions.
Same, out of curiosity, I checked my system for that and got the message.
Even if I didn’t, I’m not going to sit around all day as 64GB of “required” stora- oh I mean bloatware to install on my system.
Windows used to function fine with 2GB of storage. It does NOT need 64GB and Microsoft can get fucked.
Windows 11 was what finally forced me over to linux for good, no more dual booting. I know it sounds strange, but the straw that broke its back was the taskbar. I have an ultrawide monitor, so I ALWAYS have the taskbar vertical on a side. It makes zero sense to have it at the bottom. Massive waste of space. Windows 11 DID NOT HAVE THE ABILITY TO MOVE THE TASKBAR. I was flabbergasted. This is a feature that has existed for decades in every OS. I just couldn’t comprehend the stupidity, so I just didn’t. Formatted the drive and went to Arch, then to Tumbleweed. Couldn’t be happier.
I ran a poll a few years ago on Reddit asking people what event made them switch to Linux from some other platform. Interestingly enough it was not the EOL of a preferred version of Windows or MacOS, but the introduction of a dreaded new one. In other words, according to my poll, more people quit using Windows not because Win 7 support ended, but because Win 8 was released. Which was counterintuitive to me.
It feels to me like every second version of Windoof is shit if you start at XP (my first Windoof OS, no experience with earlier ones):
- XP guhd
- Vista shite
- 7 guhd
- 8 shite
- 10 guhd
- 11 shite
Until now I was able to skip every second version and could wait until the newer and better one was released. But now it seems that I need to make a complete switch to a suitable gaming Linux OS. I don’t have any other use for Windoof.
Your poll results feel therefore relatable to me. I want a system that just works and with which I can do everything I need to. I don’t mind testing new features. Often I welcome them. But if I can already expect that I have to adjust to new features which are unavoidable, and from which I can tell – either by reading reviews or testing myself – that I really don’t like them, then of course I stay with the system which doesn’t have them as long as I can still do everything I need to.
Well, it’s been shown with previous releases and this one that Windows gets really pushy about upgrading long before EoL for the previous OS, so I can understand the frustration. Especially annoying if you’re running something like a kiosk or a TV app that doesn’t have mouse/keyboard readily available.
I have an ultrawide monitor, so I ALWAYS have the taskbar vertical on a side. It makes zero sense to have it at the bottom.
I’ve been wondering this for YEARS. Why the fuck are we wasting SO MANY PIXELS on the long side? I’m not opening more apps… They started stacking windows under one “app” icon… So I’m using even LESS space. I don’t need to waste 75x3440 (5% of the monitor space) pixels on this shit. I’d rather waste 75x1440(2%). Because everything I do fits in that space fine.
I downloaded a third party app that re enables the windows 10 taskbar and lets you put it on the side. It’s called ExplorerPatcher. Cannot believe you can’t dock the win 11 taskbar on the side…what a choice…
SAME! I like to have my taskbar at the top of the screen, and seeing that Microsoft had absolutely no intention of allowing it because of their oh so special start menu sent me over the edge. Been full time on Linux Mint for about a year now and I’m loving it. Proton and Lutris have made it surprisingly viable for gaming, to the point where I can runmost games without any troubleshooting.
This and the worse right-click menu make me dread the day I have to switch at work :/
Microsoft needs to re-evaluate the support window, because nobody’s buying Windows 11. They fucked themselves with the high hardware requirements.
And an incomplete product; windows 11 was less functional at launch than windows 10. I’ve been a windows user since 98 and that’s the first time I can remember having said that. Sure, there were off editions that were weird and unpleasant, but I wouldn’t say less functional. Windows 11 just flat out was an incomplete product at launch.
And the live service dependencies: windows 11 pooping its diaper and having a fit about every other thing because it doesn’t have an Internet connection even though an Internet connection isn’t strictly necessary is a terrible UX choice. Anyone with half a brain knows it’s because MS has decided that if you won’t let them slurp that tasty, tasty data, then you shouldn’t be able to use the product you paid for.
And the plans to stuff ads into your operating system
And them basically doing the same shit that landed them huge anti-trust lawsuits in the 90s, but we’re doing it again because they figure they can make more money than the lawsuit will cost them, so fuck it.
There’s a lot to not like here.
There’s a lot to not like here.
the new snipping-tool is neat
Sure, there were off editions that were weird and unpleasant
You could just say ME.
But I’m curious, have the issues you’ve described made you consider leaving Windows?
Oh, I did. I ended up installing Linux mint and used it on my personal machine for about six months before re-installing windows. I would still be using Linux, I liked it a lot, but I found I had a lot of trouble getting multiplayer to work between my daughter and I. Gaming is 98% of the way there, but that 2% is really annoying and it’s most of what I use my personal machine for. I’m sure I could have figured it out if I’d had a solid 12-36 hours to fine tune configs and Google hyper specific issues, but I just don’t have that. I’m confident I will return to Linux in time, but Windows still has the edge in terms of out-of-the-box gaming, sadly.
They don’t have to make people buy it. They just have to stop supporting 10 and have no new machines with 10 pre installed. It will naturally invade our lives.
Right now we’re releasing Windows 10, and because Windows 10 is the last version of Windows, we’re all still working on Windows 10.
That was an effort to get people to buy new machines. I loaded it on my gen 7 i7 and my gen 8. Both run it just fine but microsoft insists that one is good and one is bad. Its all about new sales.
I dunno if it’s the hardware requirements. The ads are the thing I don’t want. Not sure I see the point of moving the start menu either.
Windows 11? Let’s see here…
Spyware/malware since that infamous Windows 7 update sending everything (including passwords) to Microsoft. Ads spread across the UI in W11. Simple features hidden or disabled. Bing Internet search results in the Start Menu that can’t be disabled unless you edit the registry. Search engine in the Start Menu cannot be changed. Numerous other previously simple settings changes that now require registry edits. Menu items gone, and others that still exist but inexplicably have been removed from the Start Menu search. Edge browser forced down your throat no matter what you set as the default browser. Upgrades that you can’t do at your convenience and forced restarts that happen even if you have open files that you’re editing. Long (sometimes really long) upgrade restart times. Forced Microsoft account use to install and use the OS & Internet access required to even install the OS. Absurdly inflexible hardware requirements that make no sense for most people. A taskbar that can’t be moved. Numerous programs and garbage spread through the OS that cannot be removed or disabled.
Besides that, what’s not to like?
You left out the forced rounded corners.
Holy shit.
I fucking hate that rounded corner mania which is spreading all over UI design decisions almost everywhere you look.I can tolerate it with window borders, but if rounded corners hide content, e.g., of videos or images, it really irrationally infuriates me.
My screens are rectangular. Not rounded. I paid for those pixels, so fucking use them! ò_ó
Windows 11 sucks ass, but I really get tired of people saying you are forced to use an account. There are multiple ways to make a local account in 11 when doing initial setup. It just sucks that it makes most people think that they have to use an account
Regular users are absolutely forced to use a Microsoft account, no matter how tired you are. People shouldn’t have to be techies to keep their information private.
You don’t have to be a techie to see it. There’s a button right below the email text box saying “Add a user without a Microsoft account” (here’s another variation). Sure if you don’t care about privacy then you might not notice it, but it’s pretty hard to miss if you actually don’t want to use an email. It’s not hidden behind layers of clicks or a collapsed menu or something, it’s a text link that says what it does that’s on the same email setup page. Microsoft sucks but don’t spread misinformation.
A tomshardware.com article about how to bypass the account requirement from February of this year:
https://www.tomshardware.com/how-to/install-windows-11-without-microsoft-account
It requires numerous steps to bypass the account requirement or the creation of special installation media. I ran into the Internet and account requirements when installing W11 on a VM in January.
Perhaps the screenshots you posted were accurate at some point or in some situations, but you need to do better research before accusing others of spreading misinformation, and it is you who needs to stop spreading misinformation.
Yeah, this sounds like Louis Rossmann’s “rapist mentality” that he’s been harping on for a while. They think they own your hardware just because they make software, so they’ll force you to do whatever they think is “best” for you (which is probably using more of their products).
Just say no.
Software should give you an incentive to upgrade. I use Linux 100%, and I’m excited to use the next version because it’ll fix issues and add features that I’ll actually want to use. I’m on openSUSE, and here are some things that I’ve been excited about recently:
- KDE 6 - fixed Wayland for me, so I was able to switch back from GNOME
- reproducible builds - I can now theoretically verify that everything I install is built properly instead of having to trust them
- cockpit is coming to Leap 15.6 - YaST on the CLI is cool, but clunky; this sounds like I’d get largely the same thing, but through a web browser (i.e. access a port via SSH tunnel, no remote GUI required)
Software should entice you to upgrade, not force you to upgrade. That has never been the case for me for Windows, so I bailed and now use Linux, where it absolutely is the case.
I don’t think we should call it that but damned if the analogy doesn’t fit.
Yeah, perhaps “authoritarian mentality” would be better, but that doesn’t quite have the same ring to it.
It’s called possessiveness when humans do it. Thinking of someone as your possession. It doesn’t have the bite to it as a term but it’s 100% the case that companies think they own their users.
“Incel mentality”. Thinking they deserve the world on a plate without doing the work to earn the reward.
Yeah, I’m sure almost any other name is less charged…
I loooove my openSUSE desktop. 11 was the last straw. No amount of AI is going to bring me back.
I HATE advertisements, and I paid for Pro but it seemed like they didn’t care. They want to milk me for everything I’m worth.
Good thing we have options. Linux has gotten so good, it’s better than Windows 11 while letting me decide how to use the OS. Big learning curve, but it’s smooth sailing when you get past it.
Its a downgrade. It offers nothing but ads. Who wants ads? Why do they feel the need to keep altering the interface? If microsoft manufactured automobiles they would switch the brake and gas pedals every other year.
“I grow tired of asking, so this will be the last time. Where is your Linux boot disk?”
“Help us Linus, you are our only hope”
I’m looking into backing up data so I can make the switch. We’re out here. For decades Windows was good enough. But this recent stuff is just ridiculous.
Yep. My mobile workstation got switched to Mint from Windoes11. Next is my main laptop/desktop station…I don’t use it enough to care lol.
- Windows 95: Good
- Windows 98: Bad
- Windows 98 SE: Good
- Windows ME: Bad
- Windows XP: Good
- Windows Vista: Bad
- Windows 7: Good
- Windows 8: Bad
- Windows 10: Good
- Windows 11: ?
Why are people still surprised?
I can’t really think of a reason why 10 is listed as good, does it actually do something better than 7? Even just graphical interface?
Windows 7 is good compared to Vista, but bad compared to Windows Xp SP 1 or SP 2 (in my memory at least). Windows 10 is good compared to Windows 8, but bad compared to Windows 7.
After a couple more years of MS pushing win 11, we’ll probably get a win 12 that is less good than win 10, but better than win 11, so thanks to people’s short term memory, it will then be considered “good”, but anyone with a memory and some critical thinking ability will recognize it as shite.
I beleive a large issue, and I say this as an old man yelling at kids on my lawn, is the difficulty in learning new systems. Most of those bad ones largely changed how to navigate a pc. Most of the good ones were smaller leaps from the prior bad one. So yes, I’m sure that also means the devs had more time in the current style to smooth it out and fix newly broken features, but it also got people exposed to the new style. A huge problem with 8 was that it went to that tablet tile bullshit. 10 tries to be a tablet too, slightly less so, but now we’re all accepting it as normal. That’s my take, at least as a contributing factor. Whatever was normal in your 20s is the standard for the rest of your life.
I see it with cars. People in my cohort get mad at all the chimey nannies in modern cars, so they yearn for when cars weren’t so inundated with technology. Peak automotive design was 1985-2005. And yet, the adults when we grew up would complain those 90s cars are way too complicated with their electronic engine control models and emissions systems.
I’m going to disagree on this one, at least for me personally using the base functions of the different windows versions was never a problem. Even when completely ignoring the UI changes (including the always increasingly messier system configuration pages), Windows has definitely been regressing.
The user transition from win XP to win 7 was completely smooth for me, it didn’t feel different at all. It’s only after using it a bit that the downsides became obvious: I remember that file search worked less good, they had made a bit of a mess of config screens and the bloat needed more ram. But it came with a smashing chess program. It felt like there was some minor regression, but it wasn’t a trainwreck.
Windows 8 upon first startup was awful since that was the first time that MS wanted to force the user to create a cloud account through dark pattern design. Even if I had not grown up in a time when my operating system did not use dark patterns against me, I would still be pissed off when I encountered it for the first time. Once I got past that hurdle, the Os was usable and problems only emerged when I tried to do more things.
Things like closing a stuck full screen game with task manager, which didn’t work because the new task manager would not come on top. Or the new store app, which installed “apps” that were not “programs” and could fe not be uninstalled in a normal way.
From my first experiences with windows 10 I remember that out of the box you could not control when it would update. That pc would wake up in the middle of the night despite the settings saying that it shouldn’t and I had to dig deep till I found how to make it behave permanently. Then at a later point I also made the mistake of using the recommended OneDrive sync system for my documents folder and nearly lost all my personal files, fortunately I had a backup on an external hard disk. And the main goal of Windows search was no longer to find files, but instead to trick users into opening bing, to boost microsoft quarterly statistics.
Microsoft has been adding more and more dark pattern design into Windows, it’s not a case of “old man yells at clouds”, it has really been getting worse and worse with each new release.
And Microsoft firing their qa team and using their customers as canaries is definitely not helping either. So many issues that should have never gone life.
XP sp1 and 2 were more or less the same as me with an updated UI and non existent 64 bit. However flawed vista was, it added an actual tangible benefit for 7 to further improve on.
I’d argue 7 was the last windows os that could be described as “better” in some way than what came before (which most, even the ones we remember as “bad” at the time, did offer some real step forward which isn’t true for 8/10/11).
XP is based on the NT kernel, and ME is based on the 9X kernel. They are extremely different under the hood.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Microsoft_Windows_versions
we’ll probably get a win 12 that is less good than win 10, but better than win 11,
I wouldn’t count on it. MS is moving away from selling desktop-stuff and towards selling cloud stuff (think azure and office356) and consulting. That’s why they changed their attitude towards linux (think wsl and c# for linux) and open-source (think github). MS wants companies to use open-source tools (preferably written in c#) and deploy them to azure with the help of MS-consultants.
Enshittifying windows is a step in that direction. For example: The more people have a MS-Account, the easier it is to sell office356. That’s why they pressure windows-user into making MS-Accounts.
MS knows that desktop is dying.
With 70% of the market share being w10, no, we wont
They put some under-the-hood improvements in 10 that they didn’t put in 7, such as a new display driver model and Directx 12.
But that does not make a difference to most people. Industry desupporting of Windows 7 is the biggest con to it.
Eventually, 10 will share 7’s fate. So you’ll have both 10’s regressions and 11’s and so forth to live with as long as you’re on Windows. You can’t stop Microsoft from desupporting and killing their software in the long run.
Microsoft has a multi-decade history of enshitification when they do not perceive any major threats. Internet Explorer, DirectX, Windows Server, etc. all rotted. Some of these are still active and supported, yes, but they all peaked years ago and are aging poorly. Microsoft doesn’t really do the labor of love thing much when customers are bagged.
Linux may be able to dethrone them to an extent if it can reach an ease of access/UX that most people are comfy with. And it has made huge strides over the years. It can also run most Windows software very well.
Mac is still priced very high and still feature-limited and a 2nd/3rd-class citizen when it comes to platform targeting. Offering lower priced conputers would make them a pretty big threat I think.
I think ChromeOS is a decent threat to Windows but it loses tons of features vs all the other options. At least it is really cheap and easy to use.
XP fucking sucked. It wasn’t good until service pack 3.
You skipped 8.1 which was the good version that fixed the stuff that sucked about 8. It’s existence is almost completely forgotten.
Then Windows 10 came out and it was bad.
They then had about a 10 different OS builds that all had the Windows 10 name instead of giving each build a new name or calling them service packs. The OS that exists now (22h2) has almost nothing in common with the OS that came out in 2015.
Windows 11 has also had several major leaps since that name started. What’s current (23h2) is much much different than the OS that came out in 2021.
Windows 2000 is also missing and was probably the last time Microsoft put out an OS that was good from the start rather than sucking on release.
Also the ones listed as bad from Vista onwards simply never got the improvements.
Vista was actually shockingly solid by the end. 7 on release was essentially just Vista Service Pack 3 with a new taskbar skin, because Vista was completely unmarketable by that point and nobody could be convinced to jump to Vista anymore.
Win2K was the last version of Windows I liked. By 2007 I’d had enough of their shit and moved to Linux. Each and every year since then has validated that choice, as desktop Linux has improved and Windows has enshittified further and further.
I agree with everything you write, but I’ll also add an unpopular opinion as someone who tested the beta version of Vista and hated it: Vista x64 SP2 was a good OS, which solved most of the issues that existed with the OS.
And into this day, it’s the most beautiful Windows UI, at least for me.
Windows 10: Good
People keep repeating that but it’s by far the worst and actually the one that made me bail. What is it that good about it that made it worth sacrificing user choice, privacy, performance, latency, search, startup time, solitaire, and much more?
If you include 98SE you should also include 8.1. Or include neither. But then it wouldn’t make sense anymore.
XP SP2 is what everyone remembers, too. It wasn’t very good at release and a lot of people stayed on 2000.
Indeed. Plug and play didn’t (mostly) get figured out until SP2. Drivers were still quite a nightmare at that time.
2000 though was a server version. Not technically consumer.
I’ve honestly haven’t had any problems with XP SP1. I’ve had it on a couple computers back in the day. I remember that the upgrade to SP2 wouldn’t always go well. Sometimes requiring a reinstall.
Good stopped existing after 7. Only bad and slightly less bad.
You’re missing Windows 2000, but I guess you can argue that’s Windows NT not mainline Windows. That was definitely in the good camp, and I was not alone in sticking with it for many years (until XP got good).
Edit: I see @[email protected] beat me to this point.
Windows 95: Good Windows 98: Bad Windows 98 SE: Good Windows ME: Bad Windows XP: ~~Good~~ **GOAT** Windows Vista: Bad Windows 7: Good Windows 8: Bad Windows 10: Good Windows 11: ?Fixed it for you, thanks!
Edit: strikeout not working as expected…
Too bad win 12 is on track to break the streak.
95 is the best OS of all time.
Never any love for Win 3.1
Y’all need to get yourselves that Windows 10 2021 LTSC IoT badboy (IoT part is important). It’s supported until 2032 and it’s only bloat is edge. If I had to use windows again it would be that.
Oh no, that’s not all actually.
That version doesn’t even have the Windows Store, which is a huge bloat of it’s own. Oh and it doesn’t even stop there, apparently Microsoft treats even their Pro-users like trash nowadays, that you have full control of what you do on the Win10 2021 LTSC/LoT as opposed to the Pro version and it costs more.
I was going to ask how WSL gets installed without the Windows Store, but looks like the install path doesn’t use the store anymore. That was one of the few things I ever used the store for.
You can switch from Windows 10 pro into that?
At a cost. But mind as well pirate since Microsoft is so eager to shove people to Windows 11.
Haaa
Just get ltsc image from Microsoft and crack it. Its much less of a hassle
I couldn’t find a version of this that would work in a VM. The few I tried were “preactivated” and then complained about hardware changes when I tried to install in a VM.
No I’m not asking people to find me a working release. I’m just complaining that I just can’t be assed mucking around with unlicensed installations.
the last time I had to set up a windows-system, I just said fuck-it and bought a key for 2€ from on of these shady key-sides.
Yeah I bought some keys a while back.
It never seems to be as easy as “type in this key”. They get linked to my Microsoft account or some nonsense.
Linux doesn’t require AcTiVaTiOn
Yall need to just install linux.
Working on it, but only on page 5 of Linux for dummies
You most certainly don’t need a book and I can almost guarantee you that the book is already out of date and irrelevant.
Just dig in and get dirty and figure it out.
If I had an extra machine I totally would fafo, but alas I must approach with caution.
You don’t need a whole machine, just a VM.
Haven’t got to that chapter yet. 🙂
That’s one hell of a thumbnail
It goes so hard, I love it
Maybe I’d they added more ads I’d be tempted to use it…
/S
No it needs more AI. Maybe AI-generated ads. The killer tech of 2024. The shareholders will be so pleased.
All the reviews (written by Ai) say that windows 11 is the bees knees!
I must admit I’m on the edge of jumping ship, even the software which has been keeping me locked to windows is getting less and less appealing.
Do it. Get a second hard drive and distro hop. Eventually you’ll find what you like and use windows less and less. Doesn’t have to be all or nothing at one point in time.
True, true. I think the chances of me doing at least some sort of installation this year are close to 100% lol
One of us, one of us!
Do a flip!
Do a barrel roll!
Shoe on head.
I had to help my sister keep her 8 year old Mac going or buy a new secondhand (cheap) machine. With the options out there and with the state of Windows, I didn’t even consider it.
She’s ended up with her same 8 year old Mac with Ubuntu 24.04, and I’ve been really impressed with how it’s actually great for non-technical users these days! And works really well on old hardware.
This should give her another few years of life out of the thing without worrying about software support.
Go for tumbleweed, it’s supporting wide range of architectures (including even powerpc so you can still use powerpc macs) and it’s rolling release distro on top of that
Are you talking about OpenSUSE?
Yes
I’ve been on fedora for quite awhile, what makes tumbleweed better or unique? might try it sometime
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