Every time I hear stories like this it reminds me of the efforts Dubya and Cheney have made to rewrite history because they’re associated with some of the worst people and decisions in American history. I don’t believe for a moment that he wasn’t just another yes man indulging Trump’s nonsense.
I definitely think some of this is the case here with these stories. But the main takeaway should be how important it is to keep Trump the hell out of office again.
I don’t think it matters much who we elect, at least if you’re a member of the poor and working class. It will be interesting to see the stats on how many people don’t bother voting this year.
You’re ignoring how much worse it can get, especially for people of color, people who are lgbtq, and yes, people who are making minimum wage and/or getting assistance today.
I’m not the one gaslighting myself about Democratic governance or pretending that they actually did the things that they promised, and neither are the people who need better pay instead of memes.
Did I reference a meme? Or am I specifically referencing the hate being thrown at trans folks, women dying because of idiotic laws, attempts to remove medical coverage for those who could barely get something as is?
I think its entirely accurate, and I absolutely will stand by that. Don’t try to blow smoke up my ass about both sides being the same, its absolute bullshit and I’m not interested.
sure, yeah, maybe you’ll end up about the same if trump gets in. However, as someone who would be made to massively suffer under a second Trump term, I’m sick and tired of seeing people not treat this election with the gravity that it merits. If you’re anything other than a cis white Christian male, Trump Part II is going to be a nightmare(and, to be fair though those cis white Christian males may not be aware of this, but they aren’t exactly going to have the best time of it either, especially if they’re not rich).
Yes, I agree, the Democratic party sucks and does little to actually help us. But, THERE ARE TWO, AND ONLY TWO OPTIONS UNDER OUR CURRENT SYSTEM. A Green Party vote accomplishes nothing, for they’re never going to be in enough numbers that anyone actually notices. Most people stuck voting in this stupid first-past-the-post system understand that a protest vote in a general election only serves to benefit the party further from your actual beliefs. Therefore, third parties are an utter and complete waste of time, and those voting for them were taken for fools. Not voting simply sends the message that you can be safely ignored. The time for protest votes and voting your conscience is the primaries.
Part of being an adult is having to make difficult and unsavory choices. I don’t like Harris much. I don’t like how the country is completely captured by corporate interests. However, Trump is so completely unacceptable in so many ways that not making the crappy choice to strategically vote against him is both monumentally stupid and, quite frankly, a slap in the face to every minority and every woman who stands to go through hell if that monster comes back. That’s the hand that we have been dealt. If too many people fuck around when fascism comes knocking, I’ll be one of the first to find out, though everyone will, eventually.
You post so much that makes sense and seems rational and well thought out. I don’t understand how you can expect anyone can think you’re acting in good faith when you come out with this shit, though. It’s so willfully divorced from reality that it’s stunning. I literally don’t understand how you could come to these conclusions if you’re anything other than a state actor or someone being paid.
It confuses the hell out of me.
But I’ll be voting for Harris. I’ll be banging away at how terrible her stance on Israel is literally on November 3rd right next to you if it doesn’t change, but not until we make sure Trump doesn’t get the keys to our nuclear arsenal and to the White House.
But honestly? I’d be surprised if your account remains active at that point. It’s really, really hard for me to imagine that you might actually be a real person who cares about anything rather than just a character being played by someone so incredibly cynical that you don’t mind burning the entire world down for a few bucks.
Which president pushed for the infrastructure bill that serves the public, including the poor by increasing mass transportation? Biden.
Will it take decades? Yes, but it would not have happened under Trump.
Which president got drug prices capped? Biden.
Which president got the ACA passed giving poor people health care? Obama.
Which president sent poor people that joined the military to get through college into pointless wars? Bush.
Which president gambled with Ukraine’s security risking WW3 and a draft of poor people? Trump.
Which president killed net neutrality risking ISP price gouging on popular services? Trump.
Which president killed abortion and attempted to get contraception off the ACA? Trump.
Which candidate is working on universal pre-K so families that can’t afford childcare don’t have to have one parent stay at home? Harris.
Which party wants to empower charter schools to take money originally targeted towards public schools which will keep poorer folks disadvantaged? Republicans.
Most people aren’t actually at the minimum wage anyways, they’re somewhere between minimum wage and a comfortable wage. It’ll never be what folks want it to be. The best way to improve quality of life for poor folks IMO is to cut stupid crap that gets in their way of getting a better education, better housing, and keeps them poor with junk fees like overdraft fees.
I honestly don’t know if there’s any convincing you, but if there’s any part of you I’m resonating with you should SERIOUSLY reconsider your position that it doesn’t matter. It may very well be the difference between poor people living an okay life and fighting on the front lines. Maybe even you personally, we are in a very dangerous point in history.
The whole Regan “are you better off than you were 4 years ago?” measure is some serious “do you feel better 4 minutes after maxing your credit cards on a sports car” logic. Long term effects are what matter, not whether a candidate increases or decreases your salary in the next year.
Oh I’m sure my mixed race marriage would be totally in jeopardy under Harris. I bet NOAA would get defunded by Harris. I’m pretty sure my immigrant in-laws would get deported under Harris. Oh and I’m for SURE my LGBT friends will be put in harms way by Harris. Climate, womens health, child rearing, education etc etc etc
When you elect an opposition party that doesn’t actually oppose anything, every issue that concerns you is in jeopardy, yes. Further, I wouldn’t trust someone who built their career on locking up nonviolent drug users en masse to care much what happens to you or your family.
They certainly don’t care about mine. My eighty-year old parents are driving for DoorDash, in a car I lent them, and that’s the only thing separating them from homelessness and starvation.
Fake news. Harris had a high conviction rate for nonviolent drug offenses because she was allowing them to complete a program instead of serving time for a guilty plea. She had great results for reducing recidivism rates.
Sure, the war on drugs itself is a problem, but Harris wasn’t locking people up for nonviolent drug offenses; that completely flips and mischaracterizes her work as a DA.
But you’re just sea lioning anyway. I look forward to seeing how you move the conversation to another Russian/Chinese talking point in your inevitable reply.
And Trump will increase their taxes, reduce Medicare, reduce social security blah blah blah. He has stated as much. Those I’m pretty sure will impact your parents.
The last time Trump was in power, he passed a tax bill that is estimated to have had a net negative impact on the 72% lowest earning people in America. Some of those changes stay in effect until 2028. I don’t imagine he will have less of an impact this time around.
He also dispelled the myth that one needs 60 votes to pass legislation, and yet, I still have to hear Democratic supporters make that excuse for why they never fulfill their promises.
I’m not sure which president you’re referring to. Trump made a pretty big excuse when Khashoggi was killed for why he wasn’t even going to wag his finger at Saudi Arabia. Or we could talk about his excuse for why he couldn’t reform the ACA.
I honestly think you and I are on pretty close to the same page as far as American politics are concerned, with the exception of the value of activist votes in the presidential election. I do hope your system gets updated to the point where the will of the people becomes or returns to being relevant, depending on your opinions about American history, and I hope mine gets fixed before that is no longer the case.
Every time I hear stories like this it reminds me of the efforts Dubya and Cheney have made to rewrite history because they’re associated with some of the worst people and decisions in American history. I don’t believe for a moment that he wasn’t just another yes man indulging Trump’s nonsense.
There were lots of folks that pushed back on Trump up to and including Pence in his act of patriotism certifying the election. I wouldn’t be so skeptical that Miley was one of them, he seems genuinely intelligent
and Trump likely only picked him because he has a bad ass nickname “Mad Dog.”(EDIT as another person said, I was wrong on this part – though consider reading https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2023/11/general-mark-milley-trump-coup/675375/?gift=LfMDGClsXPxuFi6NzzlsStWAlW-QPG1x0JcWnXcGjog&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share)The terrifying reality is, a 2024 Trump might not have any of those roadblocks.
“Mad Dog” Matthis was another general, not Milley.
Oh damn it, good catch I got mixed up… Trump had so many guys.
I definitely think some of this is the case here with these stories. But the main takeaway should be how important it is to keep Trump the hell out of office again.
I don’t think it matters much who we elect, at least if you’re a member of the poor and working class. It will be interesting to see the stats on how many people don’t bother voting this year.
Sure, Vlad.
When was the last time the minimum wage went up in this country?
Almost two decades ago, and 2/3 of the US states use that as the standard.
So yes, if you’re poor or working class in this country, it doesn’t matter much who we elect.
You’re ignoring how much worse it can get, especially for people of color, people who are lgbtq, and yes, people who are making minimum wage and/or getting assistance today.
It does matter.
I don’t think that’s accurate.
I’m not the one gaslighting myself about Democratic governance or pretending that they actually did the things that they promised, and neither are the people who need better pay instead of memes.
Did I reference a meme? Or am I specifically referencing the hate being thrown at trans folks, women dying because of idiotic laws, attempts to remove medical coverage for those who could barely get something as is?
I think its entirely accurate, and I absolutely will stand by that. Don’t try to blow smoke up my ass about both sides being the same, its absolute bullshit and I’m not interested.
Then you have not been paying attention
Well, thank you for your perspective.
Have a nice weekend.
sure, yeah, maybe you’ll end up about the same if trump gets in. However, as someone who would be made to massively suffer under a second Trump term, I’m sick and tired of seeing people not treat this election with the gravity that it merits. If you’re anything other than a cis white Christian male, Trump Part II is going to be a nightmare(and, to be fair though those cis white Christian males may not be aware of this, but they aren’t exactly going to have the best time of it either, especially if they’re not rich).
Yes, I agree, the Democratic party sucks and does little to actually help us. But, THERE ARE TWO, AND ONLY TWO OPTIONS UNDER OUR CURRENT SYSTEM. A Green Party vote accomplishes nothing, for they’re never going to be in enough numbers that anyone actually notices. Most people stuck voting in this stupid first-past-the-post system understand that a protest vote in a general election only serves to benefit the party further from your actual beliefs. Therefore, third parties are an utter and complete waste of time, and those voting for them were taken for fools. Not voting simply sends the message that you can be safely ignored. The time for protest votes and voting your conscience is the primaries.
Part of being an adult is having to make difficult and unsavory choices. I don’t like Harris much. I don’t like how the country is completely captured by corporate interests. However, Trump is so completely unacceptable in so many ways that not making the crappy choice to strategically vote against him is both monumentally stupid and, quite frankly, a slap in the face to every minority and every woman who stands to go through hell if that monster comes back. That’s the hand that we have been dealt. If too many people fuck around when fascism comes knocking, I’ll be one of the first to find out, though everyone will, eventually.
You post so much that makes sense and seems rational and well thought out. I don’t understand how you can expect anyone can think you’re acting in good faith when you come out with this shit, though. It’s so willfully divorced from reality that it’s stunning. I literally don’t understand how you could come to these conclusions if you’re anything other than a state actor or someone being paid.
It confuses the hell out of me.
But I’ll be voting for Harris. I’ll be banging away at how terrible her stance on Israel is literally on November 3rd right next to you if it doesn’t change, but not until we make sure Trump doesn’t get the keys to our nuclear arsenal and to the White House.
But honestly? I’d be surprised if your account remains active at that point. It’s really, really hard for me to imagine that you might actually be a real person who cares about anything rather than just a character being played by someone so incredibly cynical that you don’t mind burning the entire world down for a few bucks.
Which president pushed for the infrastructure bill that serves the public, including the poor by increasing mass transportation? Biden.
Will it take decades? Yes, but it would not have happened under Trump.
Which president got drug prices capped? Biden.
Which president got the ACA passed giving poor people health care? Obama.
Which president sent poor people that joined the military to get through college into pointless wars? Bush.
Which president gambled with Ukraine’s security risking WW3 and a draft of poor people? Trump.
Which president killed net neutrality risking ISP price gouging on popular services? Trump.
Which president killed abortion and attempted to get contraception off the ACA? Trump.
Which candidate is working on universal pre-K so families that can’t afford childcare don’t have to have one parent stay at home? Harris.
Which party wants to empower charter schools to take money originally targeted towards public schools which will keep poorer folks disadvantaged? Republicans.
Most people aren’t actually at the minimum wage anyways, they’re somewhere between minimum wage and a comfortable wage. It’ll never be what folks want it to be. The best way to improve quality of life for poor folks IMO is to cut stupid crap that gets in their way of getting a better education, better housing, and keeps them poor with junk fees like overdraft fees.
Oh, btw, Harris is working on junk fees https://www.fidelity.com/news/article/top-news/202410100607RTRSNEWSCOMBINED_KBN3BG0MD-OUSBS_1
I honestly don’t know if there’s any convincing you, but if there’s any part of you I’m resonating with you should SERIOUSLY reconsider your position that it doesn’t matter. It may very well be the difference between poor people living an okay life and fighting on the front lines. Maybe even you personally, we are in a very dangerous point in history.
The whole Regan “are you better off than you were 4 years ago?” measure is some serious “do you feel better 4 minutes after maxing your credit cards on a sports car” logic. Long term effects are what matter, not whether a candidate increases or decreases your salary in the next year.
Oh I’m sure my mixed race marriage would be totally in jeopardy under Harris. I bet NOAA would get defunded by Harris. I’m pretty sure my immigrant in-laws would get deported under Harris. Oh and I’m for SURE my LGBT friends will be put in harms way by Harris. Climate, womens health, child rearing, education etc etc etc
When you elect an opposition party that doesn’t actually oppose anything, every issue that concerns you is in jeopardy, yes. Further, I wouldn’t trust someone who built their career on locking up nonviolent drug users en masse to care much what happens to you or your family.
They certainly don’t care about mine. My eighty-year old parents are driving for DoorDash, in a car I lent them, and that’s the only thing separating them from homelessness and starvation.
Fake news. Harris had a high conviction rate for nonviolent drug offenses because she was allowing them to complete a program instead of serving time for a guilty plea. She had great results for reducing recidivism rates.
Sure, the war on drugs itself is a problem, but Harris wasn’t locking people up for nonviolent drug offenses; that completely flips and mischaracterizes her work as a DA.
But you’re just sea lioning anyway. I look forward to seeing how you move the conversation to another Russian/Chinese talking point in your inevitable reply.
Edit: 4 autocorrect fails
And Trump will increase their taxes, reduce Medicare, reduce social security blah blah blah. He has stated as much. Those I’m pretty sure will impact your parents.
And Harris will stand by and make excuses when the same things happen under her watch. We know this because that’s what Biden and Obama have done.
So what’s the point?
I don’t know how much failure it’ll take before Democratic voters start to realize they should make different choices if they actually want change.
Says the person with a white male profile pic lol
The last time Trump was in power, he passed a tax bill that is estimated to have had a net negative impact on the 72% lowest earning people in America. Some of those changes stay in effect until 2028. I don’t imagine he will have less of an impact this time around.
He also dispelled the myth that one needs 60 votes to pass legislation, and yet, I still have to hear Democratic supporters make that excuse for why they never fulfill their promises.
It really is amazing what one can do when the obstructionists are on your side.
What’s amazing is seeing a president who isn’t content to make excuses.
I’m not sure which president you’re referring to. Trump made a pretty big excuse when Khashoggi was killed for why he wasn’t even going to wag his finger at Saudi Arabia. Or we could talk about his excuse for why he couldn’t reform the ACA.
I honestly think you and I are on pretty close to the same page as far as American politics are concerned, with the exception of the value of activist votes in the presidential election. I do hope your system gets updated to the point where the will of the people becomes or returns to being relevant, depending on your opinions about American history, and I hope mine gets fixed before that is no longer the case.
I really think we’re not.
But thanks for the discussion.
Talkin’ 'bout Sergeant Bone Spurs?